Curious if anyone has had cards graded since the alteration/PWCC debacle

[111gecko]

Anyone else received any grades over the past couple of weeks when this all came out to the level it is now? We submitted multiple orders on cards we know for a fact were purchased by the original owners ranging from 1953-1957. Very nice cards..7s-8s. Everything came back evidence of trimming.

40 years of collecting and thousands of cards graded....I know when a card has been trimmed. Is it possible that this is affecting graders?...any directives from management?

Sure hope a few bad apples don't have that much influence?.......

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by 111gecko

Anyone else received any grades over the past couple of weeks when this all came out to the level it is now? We submitted multiple orders on cards we know for a fact were purchased by the original owners ranging from 1953-1957. Very nice cards..7s-8s. Everything came back evidence of trimming.

40 years of collecting and thousands of cards graded....I know when a card has been trimmed. Is it possible that this is affecting graders?...any directives from management?

Sure hope a few bad apples don't have that much influence?.......

that sucks! can you show some examples?

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by 111gecko

Anyone else received any grades over the past couple of weeks when this all came out to the level it is now? We submitted multiple orders on cards we know for a fact were purchased by the original owners ranging from 1953-1957. Very nice cards..7s-8s. Everything came back evidence of trimming.

40 years of collecting and thousands of cards graded....I know when a card has been trimmed. Is it possible that this is affecting graders?...any directives from management?

Sure hope a few bad apples don't have that much influence?.......

I'm afraid this may be the downfall due to the scammer getting everything to pass. Now legitimate cards will not be graded.

[Rhotchkiss]

I agree with Pete- do you mind posting some scans?

[perezfan]

Yes, please post. PSA needs to be done.

[111gecko]

The grades (EOT) posted today. I will post scans when they get back to me next week....so frustrating...

[Peter_Spaeth]

Cues Roy Orbison
Just runnin' scared.

[Kenny Cole]

I was an EMT in college while I was working my way through school. Long ago.
circa 1982-83. This is reminding me of that. You kind of steeled yourself for the awful shit you were going to see and moved on after was done. I kind of figured out a way to live with it then. Maybe not so much now. This is bullshit.

[swarmee]

Did you ask for a full refund?

And BTW, did you happen to submit these in toploaders with tape at the top? The only other time I remember hearing something like this is when someone posted on the PSA/CU board that their entire 100 card order (of varied sets/players) came back ?AUTHCTY (aka fake) because they submitted them in toploaders and taped the tops. I am sure that thread no longer exists.

[lowpopper]

This happens occasionally...but once the graders get spooked, it’s hard to reverse the curse.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Kenny Cole

I was an EMT in college while I was working my way through school. Long ago.
circa 1982-83. This is reminding me of that. You kind of steeled yourself for the awful shit you were going to see and moved on after was done. I kind of figured out a way to live with it then. Maybe not so much now. This is bullshit.

I knew it was bad, but given that what we're now seeing is just relatively recent examples of one doctor's work, and extrapolating from that to what I now think must be out there both from him and the many others who have done this for decades, it's effing ridiculous.

At some point PSA, in my opinion, has to address this. It's going to get beyond message boards if it hasn't already. And I really don't know what they can say, to be honest.

Not long ago given marketplace trends I was regretting a bit that some of my better cards are in SGC holders. I feel OK about that right now.

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

At some point PSA, in my opinion, has to address this. It's going to get beyond message boards if it hasn't already. And I really don't know what they can say, to be honest.

https://forums.collectors.com/discus...s-vault-option

They're actually allowing this thread on PSA/CU boards, so that's amazing. Read page 3.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by swarmee

https://forums.collectors.com/discus...s-vault-option

They're actually allowing this thread on PSA/CU boards, so that's amazing. Read page 3.

Who is 707ToppsFanatic?
I never read that board precisely because they "poof" everything, interesting.

[Exhibitman]

Tuesday I received grades on a bulk order that went in last year. Nothing amiss; usual PSA inconsistency. One card rejected for min-size that was just perfect. I would not have sent in the cards today given the circumstances.

[calvindog]

PSA has traditionally circled the wagons and done what’s best for them and not the collector in times like this. Their incompetence has been shown to be so extreme in connection with the Moser cards that one would think now would be the time to own up and come clean. But they won’t. Even worse, they should explain why they accepted submissions from Moser in Moser’s own name for decades, knowing full well what he was. As I’m certain they’ll continue to screw the collector in order to benefit themselves, they need to be sued and forced to publicly account for all of this.

[swarmee]

Well, I'm speaking with my wallet and my signature lines here and on blowout. No more grading/authentication with any company until they confess, take their lumps, and make it right.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

PSA has traditionally circled the wagons and done what’s best for them and not the collector in times like this. Their incompetence has been shown to be so extreme in connection with the Moser cards that one would think now would be the time to own up and come clean. But they won’t. Even worse, they should explain why they accepted submissions from Moser in Moser’s own name for decades, knowing full well what he was. As I’m certain they’ll continue to screw the collector in order to benefit themselves, they need to be sued and forced to publicly account for all of this.

There won't be a change in corporate culture, but it's possible I suppose this could affect the contingent liability for their guaranty which in turn could interest analysts who they would have a much harder time shutting down than collectors. Or if this gets some serious media attention beyond message boards, analysts might pick up on it.

[Promethius88]

Had a bulk order that was submitted in January pop yesterday, no cards came back as EOT out of 112. It was a mix of years from 1948 to modern. Most were newer. On Wednesday night had a small sub of T205's, 1933 Goudey and a couple 55 Topps All-American football pop, that was submitted in April. Not one came back EOT or altered. Everything was fine.

[itslarry]

The trick is to be a former employee, all blacl labels!
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1297033

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by Promethius88

Not one came back EOT or altered. Everything was fine.

Yep, you can feel confident in those opinions, I'm sure.

The other thread shouldn't cause you any concerns.

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

...if this gets some serious media attention beyond message boards, analysts might pick up on it.

Peter, come on, "serious media attention"?

This thread has already outlasted multiple political scandals, in this day and age "serious media attention" would be defined as multiple minutes.

Doug "like how I didn't obviously show myself as for or against any political party?" Goodman

[Promethius88]

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

Yep, you can feel confident in those opinions, I'm sure.

The other thread shouldn't cause you any concerns.

Actually, I feel fine about it. They were lower end cards 2-4's mostly for the pre-war stuff and not a card with a value over maybe $50-75.
The OP was asking if anyone had stuff come back eot as he did and I did not.
I get the suspicions and accusations about TPG's and I know there is a huge hate for PSA here, that's fine, the evidence is out there. But, either they are all coming back not graded because they want be extra careful or they are just letting everything pass. It can't be both ways.
We can sit here and blame TPG's, auction houses, the actual card doctors, etc. But, at the end of the day, it's us, the collectors that are to blame. Our vanity for wanting to have the "best" or paying stupid amounts of money for a piece of cardboard is what has driven the hobby to this state. This has been going on, albeit not to this degree, for years prior to TPG's ever being in existence and if they ever go away it will still happen after that. It's just easier to blame someone else. As much as we maybe don't like to admit, we, as humans have a level of greed and vanity that makes us go into situations blindly.
It's funny, I have been or read in forums for years and the two pieces of advice that are given out most frequently to people new to the hobby...
1. Buy the card, not the holder
2. You shouldn't worry what the value of a card will be in X amount of years because you buy cards for the memories, the enjoyment. That's why it's called a "hobby".
Look, is this a bad situation that is going on right now...yep, it is. I'm not trying to downplay it. There needs to be and I'm sure there will be repercussions and changes. But at the end of the day it's not as important as your family, your health, etc. All I can do is be fair and honest in my dealings and I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. It's just not worth it.

Dammit!! Let's have some fun!

[perezfan]

Sound advice...

But tons of 2s - 4s have been exposed as well. And the hits keep coming stronger than ever...

The corruption and TPG ineptitude is not (by any means) limited to high-grade cards. PSA's failures have been exposed on ALL levels. Yet they remain silent.

We cannot allow this to blow over, as that's just what they want.

[Promethius88]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Sound advice...

But tons of 2s - 4s have been exposed as well. And the hits keep coming stronger than ever...

The corruption and TPG ineptitude is not (by any means) limited to high-grade cards. PSA's failures have been exposed on ALL levels. Yet they remain silent.

We cannot allow this to blow over, as that's just what they want.

Yes, I realize lower grade cards have been exposed as well. My response to Doug was that I am confident in what I submitted was evaluated correctly. Now, I can agree or disagree with the grades, but I don't think that the grading itself is in question. Below is the list of cards I submitted in my smaller order so I hope it explains my stance. If someone had taken the time to alter them for a profit, they would probably be in holders already...in higher grades and not in the LCS where I picked them up raw...where they had been for years.


Line #

Item #

Cert #

Grade

Description

Type


1 1 43139927 GOOD 2 1911 T205 Gold Border Fred Beck
2 1 43139928 GOOD 2 1911 T205 Gold Border Lou Criger
3 1 43139929 GOOD 2 1911 T205 Gold Border Charlie Hemphill
4 1 43139930 FAIR 1.5 1911 T205 Gold Border J. Owen Wilson
5 1 43139931 VERY GOOD 3 MC 1933 Goudey 22 Pie Traynor
6 1 43139932 GOOD 2 1933 Goudey 35 Al Simmons
7 1 43139933 VERY GOOD 3 1933 Goudey 44 Jim Bottomley
8 1 43139934 VERY GOOD-EXCELLENT 4 MK 1933 Goudey 135 Woody English
9 1 43139935 VERY GOOD-EXCELLENT 4 1933 Goudey 140 Bump Hadley
10 1 43139936 GOOD+ 2.5 1933 Goudey 192 Walter Brown
11 1 43139937 GOOD 2 1933 Goudey 215 Russell Van Atta
12 1 43139938 VERY GOOD 3 1933 Goudey 235 Fred Fitzsimmons
13 1 43139939 EXCELLENT+ 5.5 1955 Topps All-Amer. 52 John Lujack
14 1 43139940 EXCELLENT+ 5.5 1955 Topps All-Amer. 85 Sid Luckman
15 1 43139941 EXCELLENT-MINT 6 1955 Topps All-Amer. 93 Willie Heston

[samosa4u]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

I'm afraid this may be the downfall due to the scammer getting everything to pass. Now legitimate cards will not be graded.

This is what I fear also. The graders are so spooked out by all of this. Now if they see any card that gives them even the slightest doubt, they will reject it.

I have about fifty cards currently at PSA and some of them are pretty expensive. If they get rejected, I am seriously going to beat Gary Moser over his head with a baseball bat!

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by 111gecko

Anyone else received any grades over the past couple of weeks when this all came out to the level it is now? We submitted multiple orders on cards we know for a fact were purchased by the original owners ranging from 1953-1957. Very nice cards..7s-8s. Everything came back evidence of trimming.

40 years of collecting and thousands of cards graded....I know when a card has been trimmed. Is it possible that this is affecting graders?...any directives from management?

Sure hope a few bad apples don't have that much influence?.......

That sucks...Give them to Brent Mastro and he'll get them graded for you I'm sure.

[kateighty]

Originally Posted by 111gecko

Anyone else received any grades over the past couple of weeks when this all came out to the level it is now? We submitted multiple orders on cards we know for a fact were purchased by the original owners ranging from 1953-1957. Very nice cards..7s-8s. Everything came back evidence of trimming.

40 years of collecting and thousands of cards graded....I know when a card has been trimmed. Is it possible that this is affecting graders?...any directives from management?

Sure hope a few bad apples don't have that much influence?.......

I've been on the fence about submitting cards while also wondering how their day to day operations have been impacted. So thanks for sharing your experience. Definitely good to know!