N172 question ?

[garymc]

Recently just put together a "pose run" of Deacon McGuire. I'm noticing now variations of the card, All are either with the Old Judge logo on the top and the font on the bottom ? I was wondering if the variations were the result of a different print run or a different factory printing
I have a passion to research and find out everything about my cards....

[oldjudge]

Originally Posted by garymc

Recently just put together a "pose run" of Deacon McGuire. I'm noticing now variations of the card, All are either with the Old Judge logo on the top and the font on the bottom ? I was wondering if the variations were the result of a different print run or a different factory printing

"I have a passion to research and find out everything about my cards...."

If you really had a " passion to research" you would have looked at the Old Judge book and already had your answer.

[ramram]

Hey Gary,

I think Jay (Old Judge) is a little cranky this morning. Yes, as he mentioned, there is a fantastic book out there called "The Photographic Baseball Cards of Goodwin & Company (1886-1890)" that will answer all of your questions. It's available for around $40 on the internet. It's invaluable for any Old Judge collector. Btw, Jay was one of the co-authors.

Rob M

[Ricky]

I bought this book about a week ago and it is a phenomenal resource.

[trdcrdkid]

Gary --

To answer your question briefly: all four of your cards are 1887 OJs, which have the Old Judge logo at the top of the card. The ones with the hotdog-style logo are type A, and the one with a rectangular logo in the upper left (second from the left in your picture) are type B. (At least I think that's right, off the top of my head.) OJs from 1888, 1889, and 1890 have "Old Judge" at the bottom of the card below the picture, and can be distinguished as follows:

1888: "Cigarettes" on line below "Old Judge"
1889: "Cigarette Factory" on line below "Old Judge"
1890: "Cigarette Factory" on line below "Old Judge", and "(N.L.)" or "(P.L.)" after team name.

There are more complexities that that, but those are the basics. If you want to know more, you should definitely get the Old Judge book, which has everything you could possibly want to know about these cards.

[oldjudge]

Thanks David. “passion for research” just seemed incongruous with a question which is answered in multiple places in the Old Judge book and was also answered on the chat board about a week ago. As I get older I get more sensitive to incongruity.

[barrysloate]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Thanks David. “passion for research” just seemed incongruous with a question which is answered in multiple places in the Old Judge book and was also answered on the chat board about a week ago. As I get older I get more sensitive to incongruity.

I'm with Jay on this one. The Old Judge book is the best research book ever written about baseball cards, and I think any question you can possibly have about Old Judges will be answered if you make an effort to read it.

Given how cumbersome some research can be, having so much information in one place makes it indispensable. If Jay is a little cranky about it, so am I.

[ramram]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

I'm with Jay on this one. The Old Judge book is the best research book ever written about baseball cards, and I think any question you can possibly have about Old Judges will be answered if you make an effort to read it.

Given how cumbersome some research can be, having so much information in one place makes it indispensable. If Jay is a little cranky about it, so am I.

Come on Barry, you mostly just like the fact that he used the words "incongruous" and "incongruity"!

Rob M

[RCMcKenzie]

.

[Ricky]

I will say this in defense of the OP... he may not have known about the Goodwin book or had easy access to it. He may have seen it available on Amazon and not known the type of information it contains. Isn't one of the purposes of this forum to ask and receive answers to these types of questions?

[oldjudge]

A close relative

[garymc]

I wouldn't read that book now if you gave it to me.....thank you for your kindness !

[SetBuilder]

Time for a 2nd Edition?

[insidethewrapper]

Must be some updates to the book, hope to see it on here.

[garymc]

It's been two weeks since I made the initial post about the n172's. I bought the book and love it, found all my answers to my questions,

But, I'm still upset about the aggression I recieved,! I feel I was blindsided from members of the forum where others in the past have always been kind to me.

I thought one of the objectives of the forum was to answer questions and have collectors in kind answer them without the fear of ridicule or verbal aggression.

I also would thank those who were kind to me........
Gary McNabb


Sharing my Yankee’s.............
https://www.flickr.com/photos/151843924@N04/albums
Share your Yankee’s...............
https://www.facebook.com/groups/554519474738304/
Share your Yankee memorabilia ...................
https://www.facebook.com/groups/2943...location=group

[Joe_G.]

Gary, glad to see your enthusiasm, you have a nice start on McGuire. Jay (oldjudge) has helped many of us over the years, his objection stemmed from your passion declaration which fell short of researching a number of posts or the book you are now familiar with.

Deacon McGuire is an interesting player to collect. While you are complete at 4 different poses, he was issued and re-issued cards from 1887 to 1889 such that he has 17 different variations currently checklisted (may be others out there as well). Five of the listed variants will be tough including Gypsy Queens (Es), 1888 re-issues (Fa & Fb), and cabinet (G). Most of the other twelve are possible given enough time and patience (the 1887 long numbered cards (type A & B) and the 1889 (Fc) re-issues).

Here is the run-down on Deacon McGuire, I've highlighted in blue the variations you posted:

312-1 Hands on knees
- a. McGuire, C., Phila (B-0149-A)
- b. McGuire, Catcher, Philadelphia (B-0149-B)
312-2 R/hand on hip, L/arm at side
- a. McGuire, C., Phila (B-0150-A)
- b. McGuire, Catcher, Philadelphia (B-0150-B)
- c. J. McGuire, Catcher, Phil (Fa, Fb)
312-3 Catch, hands shoulder high
- a. McGuire, C., Phila (B-0151-A, B, Es, Fc)
- b. McGuire, Catcher, Philadelphia (B-0151-B)
- c. McGuire, C. Phila (G)
- d. McGuire, C., Torontos (Fc)
312-4 Strike, looking down at ball
- a. McGuire, C., Phila (B-0152-A, B, Es)
- b. McGuire, Catcher, Philadelphia (B-0152-B)

[Leon]

Hey, at least you know who is saying stuff. Go to other forums and you never know. Jay is just ornery sometimes as we all can be...He means no harm.. The forum is a mixture of society, no more and no less. With close to 10,000 members there are all kinds. Happy collecting and nice run of OJs.

Originally Posted by garymc

It's been two weeks since I made the initial post about the n172's. I bought the book and love it, found all my answers to my questions,

But, I'm still upset about the aggression I recieved,! I feel I was blindsided from members of the forum where others in the past have always been kind to me.

I thought one of the objectives of the forum was to answer questions and have collectors in kind answer them without the fear of ridicule or verbal aggression.

I also would thank those who were kind to me........
Gary McNabb


Sharing my Yankee’s.............
https://www.flickr.com/photos/151843924@N04/albums
Share your Yankee’s...............
https://www.facebook.com/groups/554519474738304/
Share your Yankee memorabilia ...................
https://www.facebook.com/groups/2943...location=group

[ramram]

Hey Gary, just roll your back and let it run off. Like Leon said, you get a full mix of it. About 90% will be glad to share whatever wealth of information they may have, about 9% like to take pot-shots for whatever reason and about 1% are just bat-sh*t crazy...and that’s when it gets really fun.

Rob M

[RCMcKenzie]

Gary got a very detailed answer to his question. He should be overjoyed. I know I enjoyed reading it.