A Question About Stains...

[JollyElm]

For this example you can only buy a graded card...

Say money isn't that big of a problem, but you love hunting for bargains. If you're looking for a particular superstar card from the 50's or 60's in a PSA 7 or 8, for instance, and his cards go for between $300-400 in the grade, how apt would you be to buy a card with an 'ST' qualifier at a decent 'savings'? Not an obnoxious stain like ink or that sort of thing, but gum or wax residue only on the front of the card that's basically see-through (and could have easily been removed before it was sent into PSA, but wasn't). In fact, you could most certainly crack it out, remove the wax and get the same (without qualifier) grade if you resubmitted it. (Chances are you're not going to do that, but you could.) Some people won't buy any cards with qualifiers, so the question isn't for you. For everyone else, if a card generally costs $300 to buy, what amount of a discount would make it worthwhile for you to purchase it with that sort of 'ST' qualifier?? (It's implied that other aspects such as centering and that old bugaboo, eye appeal, are the same on each. The only issue would be the inherently transparent gum/wax stains.) Would saving $50 work? $100? More than that? Less than that? At what point do you say, "Stain be damned, I'm in!!!"??

[irv]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

For this example you can only buy a graded card...

Say money isn't that big of a problem, but you love hunting for bargains. If you're looking for a particular superstar card from the 50's or 60's in a PSA 7 or 8, for instance, and his cards go for between $300-400 in the grade, how apt would you be to buy a card with an 'ST' qualifier at a decent 'savings'? Not an obnoxious stain like ink or that sort of thing, but gum or wax residue only on the front of the card that's basically see-through (and could have easily been removed before it was sent into PSA, but wasn't). In fact, you could most certainly crack it out, remove the wax and get the same (without qualifier) grade if you resubmitted it. (Chances are you're not going to do that, but you could.) Some people won't buy any cards with qualifiers, so the question isn't for you. For everyone else, if a card generally costs $300 to buy, what amount of a discount would make it worthwhile for you to purchase it with that sort of 'ST' qualifier?? (It's implied that other aspects such as centering and that old bugaboo, eye appeal, are the same on each. The only issue would be the inherently transparent gum/wax stains.) Would saving $50 work? $100? More than that? Less than that? At what point do you say, "Stain be damned, I'm in!!!"??

Good question, and not one that is easily answered, imo.

For me, it would have to be a special/must have card and the price would have to be significantly less than what they normally go for.

Depending on the usual "going for price" I'd say anywhere $50 or $100 would likely do it for me as my most expensive card purchase to date is just under $400 dollars.

[hcv123]

Firstly - I would likely crack it and resubmit if I was as sure as you sound. The discount for "taking the risk" - I'd say it would have to be about 1/3 to MAYBE 1/2 (not sure that would be enough for me) of the "stain free" value.

[vintagebaseballcardguy]

I would happily buy a card with a transparent wax (or something like that) stain at a discount and crack it out and put it in my binder.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[ALR-bishop]

I'm with Robert. I have numerous cards with wax stains in my sets and like them just that way...minus the plastic case tomb

[Zach Wheat]

I have to agree with Robert & Al.

Z

[vintagebaseballcardguy]

Al & Zach, that is how I collected as a kid. I just turned 45. It's funny how I thought I was somehow getting smarter over the years when, in reality, I allowed myself to get swept up in competitive use of TPGing and other such self-inflicted collecting issues. Only within the last few years have I come back around to collecting the way I really enjoy collecting.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[JustinD]

I have no issue with gum stains...I would take it over poor centering all day

[JollyElm]

Since I've been asked if this thread is referring to a particular card, I'll spill the beans.

My question was more of a general appraisal of the situation, not perfectly specific. The actual card in question was a 1968 #280 Mickey Mantle graded a PSA 7 ST.

Here is a list of a bunch of straight PSA 7 sales from the past couple of months:

DATE PRICE
6/25/2018 $295.00 7 362355049949 eBay probstein123 Auction 29010693
6/24/2018 $336.99 7 263757761262 eBay emoncards Auction 90223198
6/14/2018 $415.00 7 142821778318 eBay pwcc_auctions Auction 23960047
6/8/2018 $370.00 7 282993806728 eBay tc.8787 Buy It Now 25619735
6/7/2018 $325.00 7 253649975328 eBay azsportsrelics Best Offer 21002103
6/5/2018 $330.00 7 332664729906 eBay chgocubs74 Auction 19978737
6/4/2018 $377.65 7 123152349659 eBay diamondcardboard Buy It Now 29010693
5/27/2018 $315.00 7 312139110876 eBay og60jb32 Auction 07174140
5/21/2018 $432.52 7 153022007174 eBay savannahgator Auction 05042097
5/16/2018 $294.00 7 209 Mile High Card Company Extra Innings May 2018 Auction 29010693
5/15/2018 $330.00 7 132612041941 eBay gregmorriscards Auction 28636439
5/15/2018 $300.00 7 292565095758 eBay texasholdemtom Buy It Now 01517820
5/13/2018 $350.00 7 372287903567 eBay caughtlooking2000 Buy It Now 19978737
5/13/2018 $300.79 7 142775541615 eBay 808resell Best Offer 27636349
5/7/2018 $397.77 7 192499380537 eBay prestonwms34 Buy It Now 27045150
5/6/2018 $350.00 7 332635796118 eBay pean32 Auction 15345337
5/4/2018 $425.00 7 192507525159 eBay scotts_vintage_cards Buy It Now 28183467
4/24/2018 $299.99 7 302714157002 eBay daisywoodyemma Buy It Now 22165975
4/16/2018 $411.99 7 352323923652 eBay pwcc_auctions Auction 28710441

These average out at $350 (with a low of $294 and a high of $432.52) and the lowest straight 7 BIN available on ebay is for $379.99.

After exchanging some messages with the seller (and studying the scans), I feel quite confident that the stains are the sort of thing that could be/should have been easily removed with a pair of your wife's (or your own??) pantyhose.

The card is in an older slab and the centering isn't ideal, but I was able to pick it up for a cool $200, which made it quite worthwhile to me. Unless it turns out I really screwed the pooch, I'll post better/clearer scans when it arrives.

s-l1600-2.jpgs-l1600-3.jpg

[vintagebaseballcardguy]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

Since I've been asked if this thread is referring to a particular card, I'll spill the beans.

My question was more of a general appraisal of the situation, not perfectly specific. The actual card in question was a 1968 #280 Mickey Mantle graded a PSA 7 ST.

Here is a list of a bunch of straight PSA 7 sales from the past couple of months:

DATEPRICE
6/25/2018$295.007362355049949eBayprobstein123Auction290 10693
6/24/2018$336.997263757761262eBayemoncardsAuction902231 98
6/14/2018$415.007142821778318eBaypwcc_auctionsAuction23 960047
6/8/2018$370.007282993806728eBaytc.8787Buy It Now25619735
6/7/2018$325.007253649975328eBayazsportsrelicsBest Offer21002103
6/5/2018$330.007332664729906eBaychgocubs74Auction19978 737
6/4/2018$377.657123152349659eBaydiamondcardboardBuy It Now29010693
5/27/2018$315.007312139110876eBayog60jb32Auction0717414 0
5/21/2018$432.527153022007174eBaysavannahgatorAuction05 042097
5/16/2018$294.007209Mile High Card CompanyExtra Innings May 2018Auction29010693
5/15/2018$330.007132612041941eBaygregmorriscardsAuction 28636439
5/15/2018$300.007292565095758eBaytexasholdemtomBuy It Now01517820
5/13/2018$350.007372287903567eBaycaughtlooking2000Buy It Now19978737
5/13/2018$300.797142775541615eBay808resellBest Offer27636349
5/7/2018$397.777192499380537eBayprestonwms34Buy It Now27045150
5/6/2018$350.007332635796118eBaypean32Auction15345337
5/4/2018$425.007192507525159eBayscotts_vintage_cardsBu y It Now28183467
4/24/2018$299.997302714157002eBaydaisywoodyemmaBuy It Now22165975
4/16/2018$411.997352323923652eBaypwcc_auctionsAuction28 710441

These average out at $350 (with a low of $294 and a high of $432.52) and the lowest straight 7 BIN available on ebay is for $379.99.

After exchanging some messages with the seller (and studying the scans), I feel quite confident that the stains are the sort of thing that could be/should have been easily removed with a pair of your wife's (or your own??) pantyhose.

The card is in an older slab and the centering isn't ideal, but I was able to pick it up for a cool $200, which made it quite worthwhile to me. Unless it turns out I really screwed the pooch, I'll post better/clearer scans when it arrives.

Attachment 321129Attachment 321132

Nice Mantle and a pretty good buy! I could easily live with that card for sure, especially for about $150 less. Nice pick up!

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[JollyElm]

For anybody still tuning in...

I received the card today and it is exactly as described. Just a small amount of gum/wax residue in front of the Mick's (get ready for a ten dollar word) philtrum. I messed around with the contrast and what not in photoshop to really make it plainly visible.

1968mantle280a.jpg1968mantle280b.jpg

This coulda/shoulda/woulda been removed quite easily before the TPG got their hands on it. Too bad. Perhaps PSA should create a new qualifier (WX or GM) to denote these type of harmless anomalies. Calling them stains is just plain wrong. A stain (on front anyway) is the result of someone spilling their coffee on a card, NOT having easily wiped away gum residue there. Two completely different things. Somebody get Joe Orlando on the phone!

[vintagebaseballcardguy]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

For anybody still tuning in...

I received the card today and it is exactly as described. Just a small amount of gum/wax residue in front of the Mick's (get ready for a ten dollar word) philtrum. I messed around with the contrast and what not in photoshop to really make it plainly visible.

Attachment 321341Attachment 321342

This coulda/shoulda/woulda been removed quite easily before the TPG got their hands on it. Too bad. Perhaps PSA should create a new qualifier (WX or GM) to denote these type of harmless anomalies. Calling them stains is just plain wrong. A stain (on front anyway) is the result of someone spilling their coffee on a card, NOT having easily wiped away gum residue there. Two completely different things. Somebody get Joe Orlando on the phone!

You made a nice deal on that card. I was hoping you would show it off. Thanks!

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[jchcollins]

Nice card, and I see nothing wrong with it. Hope you were able to remove the wax. I do think especially in mid-grade - that there are a lot of still very nice vintage cards to be had with qualifiers that make them turn out to be hugely discounted. I recently got a '53 Topps Warren Spahn that was graded PSA 5 (MC). It was definitely OC (which doesn't bother me) but whether or not truly MC was debatable. It has a smooth surface and sharp corners. How many 5's from '53 have sharp corners? I got it at least $30 cheaper than other non-qualified PSA 5's I had looked at. Feels like a deal to me.