possible scam; what are my options?

[cardsnstuff]

I am trying to be proactive; lets assume I don't get same card in return or a empty envelope. What is my recourse?

We've asked the buyer to ship the item back by Jun 20. Wait until you get the item back before issuing a refund.
You should wait until you get the item back before you refund the buyer. Please ensure that you issue the refund within 6 business days of the item being delivered. If the buyer doesn't send the item back by Jun 20 we may close this return.

Here's what the buyer said

Reason

Just didn't like it

Comments

The card is beautiful but I didn t realize how overextended I became this past month with my expenses. I could really use this $110 for bills. I also didn t realize there was such a noticeable smudge on the back of the card. Sorry for the inconvenience..

[glynparson]

Nothing there reads scam to me. Why do you think it is? What does his feedback look like? By reading it not just looking at numbers because you can’t ding buyers. I wouldn’t worry about it honestly if you have a problem when it comes back I’d contact eBay who probably won’t do much but I’d at least do that. But honestly don’t stress over something that hasn’t even happend yet. There’s enough stress on real stuff, no need to make more up that may not even exist.

[savedfrommyspokes]

I do not see any signs of a scam either...in most cases, if it was a scam, they would return it via a NAD claim in order to return on your dime. In this case, they will be returning at their cost. Also, on buyer's remorse returns ("just didn't like'), you can refund just the cost of the item and not the original s/h that was paid by the buyer.

[Fballguy]

Agree with others...Seem like a pretty sincere and well thought out explanation to be a scam. This is life when you offer returns.

[Jobu]

If you are worried, I would take a video of the package when it arrives, showing the label and that it is still sealed. Then open it on the video without taking it off camera. I've never had to use this but it is some protection. You can also open it in front of the postal employee who delivers it, but trying to set that up for a $110 card might be too much effort.

[cammb]

What is your return policy? Buyers remorse is not a reason to acceot a return.

[conor912]

Originally Posted by cardsnstuff

I am trying to be proactive; lets assume I don't get same card in return or a empty envelope. What is my recourse?

There's a difference between being proactive and worrying before it's time to worry. Life is hard enough without unnecessarily adding the latter.

[Luke]

If you offer 30-day returns, this is just par for the course. I've only had a couple returns since offering it, and both were just like this. One guy was hoping the colors on the card would be more intense or something, and the other just didn't read the description fully and missed a hard-to-see wrinkle.

It doesn't sound like you have anything to worry about in my opinion.

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by cammb

What is your return policy? Buyers remorse is not a reason to acceot a return.

I don't think you can put caveats in your return policy.

[T206Collector]

Last summer, I was an ebay seller who had a refund decision go against me. The buyer was instructed to return the card and I got an empty envelope. Knowing it was a scam -- he claimed a T206 card I sold him raw was fake -- I took a video of my opening it. I posted about how I handled it, and then copied and pasted below.

This is what happened:

I lost my appeal from PayPal, they closed the case and they released the funds to the perpetrator.

I called PayPal back, following the instructions here:

https://www.paypal.com/us/selfhelp/contact/call

I calmly explained that I was extremely upset, and I was contacting government authorities to open a criminal and civil investigation of PayPal and the eBay user. They reversed or cancelled the decision on appeal, and re-opened the case to give me a chance to upload police reports/complaints, etc.

I uploaded the police blotter from my local PD. I then filed a complaint with the USPS and FBI (Internet Crimes Complaint Center), and uploaded a copy of the submitted complaints. If you get in the same mess, you can click either of these links to get you started. It was very straightforward.

https://www.uspsoig.gov/form/file-online-complaint

https://www.ic3.gov/default.aspx

I also sent the complaints directly via email to the perpetrator. And every time something would happen from these government agencies and they would send me an update on my claims, I would forward those to the perpetrator as well. I kept it as professional and non-argumentative as possible. This was my email to the guy:

"I have filed formal complaints with the FBI Internet Crime Division, the USPS Office of Inspector General, and my local police department. Copies of the FBI and USPS claims are attached. I will send you the police department blotter under separate cover. Finally, I will be uploading copies of all of the complaints on PayPal's Dispute Resolution Center landing page, and I will be sharing with your local police department in Folsam, CA."

That was it. No threats. No anger.

Two things happened almost immediately after this:

(1) I got my first ever email from the perpetrator. He wrote, "your a phyco path dude" (his grammar and spelling, not mine) and told me he was told to destroy the card by ebay and would now instead send me the card back, which he miraculously did. I believe he did not follow what ebay (purportedly) instructed him to do because he knew it was the real deal all along!

(2) PayPal refunded my money!

[cardsnstuff]

Thanks for all the replies; it definitely helps me feel better about this situation. and yep I am a worry wort and need not worry about it and just call it cost of doing business. I guess I read about all the scammers out there and just figured this was another one.

[cardsnstuff]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

Last summer, I was an ebay seller who had a refund decision go against me. The buyer was instructed to return the card and I got an empty envelope. Knowing it was a scam -- he claimed a T206 card I sold him raw was fake -- I took a video of my opening it. I posted about how I handled it, and then copied and pasted below.

This is what happened:

I lost my appeal from PayPal, they closed the case and they released the funds to the perpetrator.

I called PayPal back, following the instructions here:

https://www.paypal.com/us/selfhelp/contact/call

I calmly explained that I was extremely upset, and I was contacting government authorities to open a criminal and civil investigation of PayPal and the eBay user. They reversed or cancelled the decision on appeal, and re-opened the case to give me a chance to upload police reports/complaints, etc.

I uploaded the police blotter from my local PD. I then filed a complaint with the USPS and FBI (Internet Crimes Complaint Center), and uploaded a copy of the submitted complaints. If you get in the same mess, you can click either of these links to get you started. It was very straightforward.

https://www.uspsoig.gov/form/file-online-complaint

https://www.ic3.gov/default.aspx

I also sent the complaints directly via email to the perpetrator. And every time something would happen from these government agencies and they would send me an update on my claims, I would forward those to the perpetrator as well. I kept it as professional and non-argumentative as possible. This was my email to the guy:

"I have filed formal complaints with the FBI Internet Crime Division, the USPS Office of Inspector General, and my local police department. Copies of the FBI and USPS claims are attached. I will send you the police department blotter under separate cover. Finally, I will be uploading copies of all of the complaints on PayPal's Dispute Resolution Center landing page, and I will be sharing with your local police department in Folsam, CA."

That was it. No threats. No anger.

Two things happened almost immediately after this:

(1) I got my first ever email from the perpetrator. He wrote, "your a phyco path dude" (his grammar and spelling, not mine) and told me he was told to destroy the card by ebay and would now instead send me the card back, which he miraculously did. I believe he did not follow what ebay (purportedly) instructed him to do because he knew it was the real deal all along!

(2) PayPal refunded my money!

this is really good info. thanks.

[MikeGarcia]

Is he still on E-Bay buying raw T-206's or did PayPal/E-Bay cancel his account ? Thanks...

[ALR-bishop]

T 206– unfortunately for him you were a tenacious pysco path dude

[tiger8mush]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

I then filed a complaint with the USPS and FBI (Internet Crimes Complaint Center), and uploaded a copy of the submitted complaints. If you get in the same mess, you can click either of these links to get you started. It was very straightforward.

https://www.uspsoig.gov/form/file-online-complaint

https://www.ic3.gov/default.aspx

Very helpful, thanks for sharing Paul!

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

Last summer, I was an ebay seller who had a refund decision go against me. The buyer was instructed to return the card and I got an empty envelope. Knowing it was a scam -- he claimed a T206 card I sold him raw was fake -- I took a video of my opening it. I posted about how I handled it, and then copied and pasted below.

This is what happened:

I lost my appeal from PayPal, they closed the case and they released the funds to the perpetrator.

I called PayPal back, following the instructions here:

https://www.paypal.com/us/selfhelp/contact/call

I calmly explained that I was extremely upset, and I was contacting government authorities to open a criminal and civil investigation of PayPal and the eBay user. They reversed or cancelled the decision on appeal, and re-opened the case to give me a chance to upload police reports/complaints, etc.

I uploaded the police blotter from my local PD. I then filed a complaint with the USPS and FBI (Internet Crimes Complaint Center), and uploaded a copy of the submitted complaints. If you get in the same mess, you can click either of these links to get you started. It was very straightforward.

https://www.uspsoig.gov/form/file-online-complaint

https://www.ic3.gov/default.aspx

I also sent the complaints directly via email to the perpetrator. And every time something would happen from these government agencies and they would send me an update on my claims, I would forward those to the perpetrator as well. I kept it as professional and non-argumentative as possible. This was my email to the guy:

"I have filed formal complaints with the FBI Internet Crime Division, the USPS Office of Inspector General, and my local police department. Copies of the FBI and USPS claims are attached. I will send you the police department blotter under separate cover. Finally, I will be uploading copies of all of the complaints on PayPal's Dispute Resolution Center landing page, and I will be sharing with your local police department in Folsam, CA."

That was it. No threats. No anger.

Two things happened almost immediately after this:

(1) I got my first ever email from the perpetrator. He wrote, "your a phyco path dude" (his grammar and spelling, not mine) and told me he was told to destroy the card by ebay and would now instead send me the card back, which he miraculously did. I believe he did not follow what ebay (purportedly) instructed him to do because he knew it was the real deal all along!

(2) PayPal refunded my money!

Thank you for doing that.

I only wish more would.

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

Two things happened almost immediately after this:

(1) I got my first ever email from the perpetrator. He wrote, "your a phyco path dude" (his grammar and spelling, not mine) and told me he was told to destroy the card by ebay and would now instead send me the card back, which he miraculously did. I believe he did not follow what ebay (purportedly) instructed him to do because he knew it was the real deal all along!

(2) PayPal refunded my money!

So you got the card and kept the perps money?

[sreader3]

Paul,

Thanks for going to all that trouble. We all owe you a debt of gratitude.

Scot

[cammb]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

I don't think you can put caveats in your return policy.

That is Ebay policy. Ebay leaves it up to you whether you will give a refund. Changing one's mind is not a valid excuse to return an item

[Sean1125]

Originally Posted by cammb

That is Ebay policy. Ebay leaves it up to you whether you will give a refund. Changing one's mind is not a valid excuse to return an item

Actually, it is.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Sean1125

Actually, it is.

Bust a deal.....

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Sean1125

Actually, it is.

Unfortunate but true. I could maybe see it (changed mind) on a fixed price item but not an auction. That is messed up unless it was a SNAD.

[cammb]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

I don't think you can put caveats in your return policy.

Read Ebays return policy. Returning a card damaged or not described is an automatic return. Ebay states that buyers who changed their minds have to notify the seller and ask for a return. It also states to check the sellers return policy. So it is not a given that buyers remorse goes in favor of the buyer.

[Sean1125]

Originally Posted by cammb

Read Ebays return policy. Returning a card damaged or not described is an automatic return. Ebay states that buyers who changed their minds have to notify the seller and ask for a return. It also states to check the sellers return policy. So it is not a given that buyers remorse goes in favor of the buyer.

In any case except where a seller offers "no returns", buyers remorse is a valid reason for return.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by cammb

Read Ebays return policy. Returning a card damaged or not described is an automatic return. Ebay states that buyers who changed their minds have to notify the seller and ask for a return. It also states to check the sellers return policy. So it is not a given that buyers remorse goes in favor of the buyer.

One of those instances where policy and practice are two different things.

[savedfrommyspokes]

Originally Posted by Sean1125

In any case except where a seller offers "no returns", buyers remorse is a valid reason for return.

And, if the seller does offer returns, a buyer's remorse return is automatically "approved" w/o the sellers consent. However, in a case such as this, the buyer is responsible for the cost of returning and the seller is not obligated to refund any of the original s/h paid by the buyer. In other words, the buyer is only compensated for the item itself and is on the hook for s/h both ways.

With "free returns", my understanding is that the seller is able to approve all returns. This would be especially important with lower dollar items as the return s/h may cost the seller more than the item itself so ebay allows the seller the option to refund and let the buyer keep the item.

Rarely, have I had this happen, but this past week I had a buyer "not like" a $2 card. They paid $3 for the original s/h, and as I do not offer free returns, $2.66 to return the item. As the return was automatically approved, all I could do was scratch my head as this guy is out $5.66 and has no card????