Hal Chase autograph questions...

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Posted By: Shawn Chambers

Hey guys,

One of my eventual "goals" is to own a Hal Chase autograph, but this will still be many years away (3-5 at least). I would like to get the opinions of Jodi and some of the other autograph experts regarding these questions:

1) How often does his signature come up for sale?

2) I usually see the "shaky" variety...what percentage of total auto's have you guys seen of his "younger" signature?

3) Roughly how many are you aware of?

4) Any current rough prices for letter, cut, ball, etc.

And of course, I am more than happy to see any Hal Chase memorabilia to accompany this thread!

Thanks for any insight!

Shawn

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

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Posted By: David Atkatz

In all my years of collecting, I've only seen two "early" signatures.

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Posted By: Shawn Chambers

Wow...it is great to see those!

It seems like within the last ten years, I remember seeing a letter at one of the major auction houses where Hal listed the teams he played for at the end. It was a fairly long letter and I think it was probably an earlier sig as I seem to recollect the writing was fluid. Does this ring a bell?

David and Jeff...how long have you owned yours and have you ever owned others?
(If you don't mind answering.)



Shawn

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Posted By: Rhys

For a later life "Shaky" signature, expect to pay in the $500-$1000 range depending on the piece quality. There was a time maybe 3 years ago that Mike Guttierez had a few in an auction (I think maybe Jeff's came from there) and I have only seen one or two since. He is not that difficult for a 1940's death date but his popularity makes him fairly valuable and many are tucked into collections. I have only ever personally seen one early example and it was not for sale so I have no idea how much of a premium it would go for, but my guess would be $1500-$2000 for a nice and clean career era example. if I had to venture a guess (Just a guess) I would say there are somewhere between 50-100 examples in the hobby total unless some family hoard ever pops up.

Rhys

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Posted By: Jodi Birkholm

I have seen under 20 examples in over 20 years, with only one or two dating before the "shaky period".

Jodi

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Posted By: Shawn Chambers

I guess I'm just blown away by the relative scarcity of his signature given what a marquee player he was in the biggest city in America. When you think of the big names and how often their signature appears, I would expect there to be at least a couple hundred of Chase autos based on just his popularity.

I do appreciate all the information (and trust me, if I can ever even land a "shaky" signature, I will be the one shaking! ).

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Posted By: sean

from a hunt auctions

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Posted By: Rhys

People look at Chase differently now than they probably did back in the day. You hear stories that other players hated him (He hit on teammates wives for example), that he was crooked, dishonest, did not work hard, was a extremely arrogant and pretty much not a very good guy. While people tend to idolize the early baseball crooks and scumbags who have an interesting story (Black Sox, Banned Players etc) you have to understand that in his own day Chase was a shady character and many people simply did not like him despite his charisma which could account for the lack of signed material. Nobody would doubt his "potential" but people knew what he stood for and what he was about and he rubbed a lot of players and fans the wrong way.

Rhys

Please note the one exception is Ty Cobb. People love to hate Cobb but overlook the glaring faults of other characters in Baseball History.

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Posted By: Jodi Birkholm

That ball has now been tampered with. After it sold in Hunt, the winning bidder had every signature but the Chase painted over in an effort to make it appear to be a single-signed ball. Whoever actually did the work really did a hack job on it.

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Posted By: sean

ouch! really? It never ceases to amaze me how may lunatics are out there

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Jodi, was the 'after' ball put up for auction in the past year or so? I thought I remember seeing a shellacked (or at least yellowed) single signed Chase ball not that long ago.

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Posted By: Jodi Birkholm

Yes, the ball sold at auction within the last 12-18 months. It was properly listed as having removals and sold for a pittance. The amateurish coating with coffee-colored paint and heavy shellacking really killed the ball's eye appeal. There are no other examples of Chase on a baseball that I have personally encountered or examined, however. I wonder if one will ever be found.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Ahh...I thought that was the ball. I considered bidding on it..but it really looked like sh*t. It was obvious something was wrong with it.

And by the way, when are you hooking me up? It's been two nights since I've bought something and I'm getting the shakes.

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Posted By: Shawn Chambers

Does anyone have a link to the sale of the "fixed" ball?



Just the location alone, I would think would draw suspicion. Why would Chase sign a ball in that spot if he were the lone signature. Go figure.



I remember seeing that original "unfixed" ball for sale and thought it was odd because that was the only time I had seen the "H" signed like that by Hal. Wonder why?

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Shawn, I think I've had mine for 3 years or so. As for the Chase signature on the ball above...it doesn't look good to me (for whatever that is worth).

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Posted By: Andrew Saboley

I remember seeing the scan of a Chase autograph that Shigley got signed in the late 1920s and even it had a tiny bit of shakiness. The autograph on that ball doesn't look authentic to me.

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Posted By: Shawn Chambers

Jodi,

I just re-read the Hunt description on the ball and noticed it came with a LOA from PSA (Spence). Yikes! I would have liked to read the letter.

What did the ball sell for the second time?

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Ahhh Spence. Maybe it was Larry's fault again; perhaps Sal Bando walked in when he was checking out that ball.

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Posted By: Clint

Not his autograph but as close as I'll get.

Clint

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Clint, that was from Mastro, right? I love it.

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Posted By: Clint

Thanks Jeff, no I won it on ebay about 5 years ago. It's considered one of the holy grails of store model bats.

Clint

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Posted By: Frank Cloak

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Posted By: Frank Cloak

My Grandmother, Hal's sister, cut off Hal's name from the letters that he sent her and sent them to autograph seekers until she ran out of them. Didn't pay much attention as I was only 13.

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Posted By: sean

wow! very cool! Hal is my second fave player after Johnny Evers Share with us the cool stuff you have! Im sure thered be a lot of interest in those letters even with the sgignature cut out!
sean

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Posted By: Richard Simon

Frank - when Hal wrote to his sister did he actually sign the letters Hal Chase?? Usually letters to close relatives or close friends are only signed with a first name.
=

I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.
Unknown author
--
We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember.
No retreat baby, no surrender.
The Boss

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Posted By: whitehse

Maybe I am wrong but I took Frank's comments to mean that she cut the full name from the return address portion of the envelopes he sent and not from the actual letters themselves. Like I said I might be wrong but that was how I took Frank's comments.

Either way I found myself really interested in any stories or items that Frank might have in the family. I love old baseball history and would love to hear some fresh stories from a family member

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Posted By: MVSNYC

"My Grandmother, Hal's sister, cut off Hal's name from the letters that he sent her and sent them to autograph seekers until she ran out of them."

Ummm, Whitehse- it's pretty clear to me that Frank meant, she cut his name off from the "letters" that he sent her...not from the return address portion of the envelopes.


p.s. Lichtman- where are you? surprised you haven't invited Frank up to Park Ave. for dinner yet?

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Posted By: dstudeba

Rhys -

That is interesting. I was always under the impression that Chase was popular in his day with the fans and that was the reason that he had more T206 poses than any other player.

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Posted By: whitehse

MVSNYC

As I mentioned it was my opinion that the full name was taken from the return address because I couldnt see Mr. Chase signing his full name to a letter to his sister.

As I mentioned I might be wrong but that was what I thought when I read the post by Frank!

Maybe I am reading too much into your "tone" but as i mention it was nothing more than my opinion, plain and simple.

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Posted By: MVSNYC

whitehse- i should've ommited "Ummm"...it reads differently without it...

my apologies...no tone intended at all.

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Posted By: Vincent

Hunt's current live auction on March 2-3, 2009 has a Hal Chase signed cut, attached to a 3x5 (Lot #181). Not the most attractive example, but certainly a decent space filler, and reasonable for the estimate provided.



http://www.huntauctions.com/online/imageviewer.cfm?auction_num=37&lot_num=181&lot_qua l=&url_referer=search.cfm

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Posted By: Marty Ogelvie

That Hunt Auction Chase Auto looks just like something that might have been cut from a letter. Perhaps by his sister!

marty

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Posted By: Shawn Chambers

Yeah, even if I had the money I would pass on this one. I just don't like the way it "presents". Also, I think I would need some background on this one...

Wouldn't Hal's later sig be awful easy to forge given the nature of his condition? I would definitely want something more certain regardless of the authentication (wouldn't we all...lol). Curious to see what it brings, though.

Shawn

[realbigfatdog]

Hey all, I just came across this thread and was wondering if I could get a few opinions on a Chase signature I just acquired. I plan on having it authenticated soon, but any help would be appreciated. The seller has given me a money back guarantee on it, so I will only be out the authentication cost. So I'm rolling the dice, but I thought it looked pretty good (to my highly untrained eye).

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[David Atkatz]

Nope.

[Klrdds]

I've had a dozen or so Hal Chase autographs on various items over the years and this is not close .
Sorry no ...stay away from this one.

[realbigfatdog]

Shit.

[bocca001]

Some other Chase auto examples. I own the bat and the photo. I've never tried to get the photograph auto authenticated and don't have any pans to do so, but much of the handwriting seems to match the authenticated one (e.g., D, lower case H and F).

[realbigfatdog]

Great photo from his only year with the Giants. Love it!

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by bocca001

Some other Chase auto examples. I own the bat and the photo. I've never tried to get the photograph auto authenticated and don't have any pans to do so, but much of the handwriting seems to match the authenticated one (e.g., D, lower case H and F).

IMHO, the photo is forged.

[bocca001]

Yeah, could be. It came from the estate of a 1940s minor league player from the CA (Raymond Antonali), and Chase was in and around that part of the country later in life when his penmanship wasn't so strong. But...