What is Major League Baseball's most unbreakable record?

[Eric72]

Baseball is, in part, a numbers game. Some of the numbers have become so special that they were as much a part of the game as the players they were synonymous with.

Although the numbers below are no longer records, I believe most of you will associate each of them with a particular player.

755...2,130...4,191. OK, so the last number has apparently been downgraded. I'm sure we all get the idea.

So, please weigh in with your thoughts on what you consider to be the most unbreakable record in baseball.

Thanks, in advance, to everyone.

Best Regards,

Eric

[bn2cardz]

Consecutive games played at 2632

As a side note, I don't put a lot of stock in Wikipedia but it does give a good starting point for research and once had a lot of fun reading through this post:
List of Major League Baseball records considered unbreakable

[MVSNYC]

Great thread, good options listed above...for me, it was between Cy Young's 511 wins and Ripken's Streak. in the end, i went with the 511 wins, just a ridiculous record to approach in today's game.

[markf31]

I'll go with Johnny Vander Meer's back-to-back No Hitters. The thought of someone throwing 3 in a row to break the record is pretty crazy.

There are a bunch of pitching records that will never be broken, just with the way the pitchers are managed today:

Most wins in a season – 59 Old Hoss Radbourn
Most career complete games – 749 Cy Young
Most complete games in a season - 75 Wil White

[mattsey9]

511 wins.




You basically just have to average 25 victories out of your 32 starts for 20 years, and then it's still not enough.

[itjclarke]

Unless teams go back to 4, or even 3 man rotations, throw away pitch and innings counts... Then allow their starters to make 10-20 relief appearances in a year (preferably entering in tie games), my vote goes to Cy's 511.

[z28jd]

Every single season record held by John Coleman:

48 losses
772 hits allowed
510 runs
291 earned runs

[mr2686]

Originally Posted by markf31

I'll go with Johnny Vander Meer's back-to-back No Hitters. The thought of someone throwing 3 in a row to break the record is pretty crazy.

There are a bunch of pitching records that will never be broken, just with the way the pitchers are managed today:

Most wins in a season – 59 Old Hoss Radbourn
Most career complete games – 749 Cy Young
Most complete games in a season - 75 Wil White

I agree with everything Mark said, 100 percent.

[Matthew H]

All of those stats are close to being unbreakable. I think the only ones that have a chance to be broken any time soon are the 56 game hit streak, and possibly the 26 game win streak.

[bigtrain]

I voted for Cy Young although I think that 110 shutouts is equally unbreakable today.

[Ease]

I voted for Cal Jr., but Bill Bergen's lifetime .170 batting average with over 2500 at bats would be hard to "beat!"

[MattyC]

As someone said above, the game has changed so that many of those pitching marks will be insanely hard to approach.

I'd be very curious to see how votes would shake out if the question were parsed into most unbreakable hitting record, single season record, career record, etc.

[Sean]

Adrian getting to 500 posts in less than six weeks.

[Bocabirdman]

Most career steals of first base....Germany Schaefer - One!

[DaveW]

It's so hard to win 300 games anymore, but to get to 512 would be unthinkable unless we allow guys with bionic arms to pitch.

[Shoele$$]

Two come to mind....511 wins and a .366 lifetime average. Will never be broken. Hell nobody has even approached a .400 season since Teddy Ballgame, Cobb did it three times. Those two records are untouchable.

[ncinin]

While the records listed may never be broken most atleast have the possibility of being broken. No one may break Ripken's record but players will play the required number of games and it is atleast possible to break it.

I doubt anyone bats .366 lifetime but players can be on the field to potentially do it.

I think Chesbro's 41 wins is the most unattainable because pitchers will not have 41 starts to even have a chance to break it. Last 34 starts were the most in MLB.

[kcohen]

Chief Wilson's 36 triples in 1912 - With today's groomed fields and modern gloves, that record is unassailable.

[drc]

Cobb's career batting average would be tough, but, barring radical rules change or radical steroids strain, I don't see anyone breaking Cy Young's 511 wins.

[itjclarke]

I think the only way any of the pitching marks, especially career/single season wins could ever be approached is if a team has a rubber armed knuckleballer and isn't afraid (meaning he's not a bonus baby) to use him on shorter rest than the rest of the staff (Wilbur Wood did this correct?). They'd also probably need to use him out of the bullpen where he'd be able to pick up 4-5 more wins per year.

That said, I still vote Cy's as most unbreakable, and agree Chesbro's 41 /Hoss's 59 (or 60) are unbreakable too.

Records like Ripken's streak, Rose's hits (Ichiro may well approach/pass it combining Japan/MLB meaning it is breakable), Dimaggio's 56 are superhuman.. but given another superhuman performance could all be reached/passed within the current style of today's game. 511/41 or 59/110 would all require fundamental changes in the way the game is played and the way players/pitchers are managed, coupled with superhuman.

[CMIZ5290]

Great thread, but I really don't think Bond's should even be listed. Just my opinion....

[ullmandds]

i think they're all unbeatable!!!!!!!!

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

i think they're all unbeatable!!!!!!!!

+1!

[tcdyess]

How about Chesbro's 41 wins in a season? I don't think anyone will ever sniff that again either....

Tim

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by tcdyess

How about Chesbro's 41 wins in a season? I don't think anyone will ever sniff that again either....

Tim

Especially in today's normal 5 man rotation....Even with a 4 man rotation, no chance whatsoever...

[smtjoy]

Another to add would be breaking Johnny Vander Meer's record of throwing two consecutive no-hitters.

[bcbgcbrcb]

Most career pitching losses, I think Cy Young holds that record as well, no?

[EGreenwood]

Cy Young's win record
Rickey Henderson's stolen base record
Sam Crawford's triple record
Jack Chesbro's single season (modern) record
These all seem to defy any future advances in longevity.

[triwak]

Originally Posted by tcdyess

How about Chesbro's 41 wins in a season? I don't think anyone will ever sniff that again either....

Tim

The actual record is 60 wins in one season, by Old Hoss Radbourne. (Some sources still say 59). Chesbro's 41 is the highest after the 19th century.

[nolemmings]

Cy Young's win record. It's not easy to envision a 30 game winner in one season anymore (it's been 45 years), where 35 starts seems to be the max. Now picture having to win 30 games a season for 17 seasons--and still be one short of Cy. Ain't happening.

[bobbyw8469]

Great thread, but I really don't think Bond's should even be listed. Just my opinion....

Agreed....I would rather seeing Ted Williams batting .400 than Bonds hitting 73 homers. In my opinion, that will be the easiest record to break.

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

Agreed....I would rather seeing Ted Williams batting .400 than Bonds hitting 73 homers. In my opinion, that will be the easiest record to break.

Bobby,

I thought about Rogers Hornsby averaging over .400 across five full seasons as a choice. I personally don't ever see that happening again. Problem is, hitting .400 isn't really a record, so I left Hornsby out.

As for Bonds, I included him because I doubt anyone will hit 73 in a season for a long, long time. Unless, of course, the steroid era has a renaissance or they start building much smaller ballparks.

Great content...from everyone.

Carry on and have fun!

Best Regards,

Eric

[Paul S]

Sam Crawford's 309 career triples

[WhenItWasAHobby]

Originally Posted by DaveW

It's so hard to win 300 games anymore, but to get to 512 would be unthinkable unless we allow guys with bionic arms to pitch.

Perhaps if someone trained themselves to throw ambidextrously so that they could pitch right handed in the starting rotation one day and left handed a different day and also throw a knuckleball so that they could pitch until they are 50 years old - all of that could drastically increase the odds. In addition this person could spot relieve and pick up more wins. One cut throat way to get additional wins would be to pull the starting pitcher with a lead after pitching 4-2/3 innings thus making that starting pitcher ineligible for the win and thus making the relief pitcher eligible for the win provided he pitch effectively for an inning for so. Mike Marshall made 106 appearances in one season. Pitching with both arms could make that pitcher eligible everyday in theory.

[conor912]

I have to give it to Cy Young, but not for wins. He hurled 749 complete games. That's 30 a year every year for 25 years and over 90% of his decisions. Completely mind blowing if you think about, particularly by today's standards.

[tcdyess]

Originally Posted by conor912

I have to give it to Cy Young, but not for wins. He hurled 749 complete games. That's 30 a year every year for 25 years and over 90% of his decisions. Completely mind blowing if you think about, particularly by today's standards.

And he never had Tommy John surgery!!! Completely mind numbing!!!!

[frankbmd]

Joe Who?? you ask.

Well Joe has the highest career ERA in Major League history.

He accomplished this feat in a one game career in 1945.

He faced nine batters with the following results

3 hits
5 walks
1 strike out &
7 earned runs

for an ERA of

189.00

[brob28]

Lots of great points, but I agree with most that Cy Young's career wins seems as close to impossible as can be. I agee with earlier post that Chesboro's single season mark will stand as well.

[barrysloate]

Fernando Tatis's two grand slams in one inning...to break it you would have to hit three!

[triwak]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Fernando Tatis's two grand slams in one inning...to break it you would have to hit three!

My brother was at that game, the lucky duck!!!

[barrysloate]

With regard to the poll, virtually all of the choices would be nearly impossible to beat, many because of changes in the game. So a better question might be: could any of these accomplishments ever be surpassed? It's possible that none of them will, hence they are all equally difficult.

[Hankphenom]

Germany Schaefer actually stole first base twice, so he did break his own record. And as impressive as Cy Young's records are, when do "modern" records begin? Not that his or Walter's records will ever be broken, but I've always thought it not completely implausible that at some point pitching strategy will revert to that of my youth, when the starting pitcher was expected to go all the way. It seemed to work so well for so many pitchers in the past, and freed up roster spots for specialty utility guys on the bench. Has it been proven that pulling the stud pitchers of the past in the last two or three innings and substituting a "closer" would have saved their teams games? Or is it just that because they don't pitch as much as they did in the old days, now they CAN'T pitch as much? How about injuries? Seems like they're almost all brittle now, whereas before, a 15 to 20 year career was more or less standard for the starters. I wouldn't rule out a reversal at some point, where they start working them more in the minors to prepare for a career more like those before the shorter and shorter starts began in the 1960s or 70s. Or, if they keep going the way they are, the very concept of a "starter" could disappear, and he would just be the first guy handed the ball and expected to go the first two or three innings before the next guy came in.

[itjclarke]

Originally Posted by WhenItWasAHobby

?. and also throw a knuckleball so that they could pitch until they are 50 years old - all of that could drastically increase the odds. In addition this person could spot relieve and pick up more wins. One cut throat way to get additional wins would be to pull the starting pitcher with a lead after pitching 4-2/3 innings thus making that starting pitcher ineligible for the win and thus making the relief pitcher eligible for the win provided he pitch effectively for an inning for so. Mike Marshall made 106 appearances in one season. Pitching with both arms could make that pitcher eligible everyday in theory.

Originally Posted by itjclarke

I think the only way any of the pitching marks, especially career/single season wins could ever be approached is if a team has a rubber armed knuckleballer and isn't afraid (meaning he's not a bonus baby) to use him on shorter rest than the rest of the staff (Wilbur Wood did this correct?). They'd also probably need to use him out of the bullpen where he'd be able to pick up 4-5 more wins per year.

That said, I still vote Cy's as most unbreakable, and agree Chesbro's 41 /Hoss's 59 (or 60) are unbreakable.

We're thinking alike Dan. To the point about ambidextrous pitchers.. There was at least one guy pitching in an independent league a few years ago that could use both arms. He had a special glove that fit either hand. He was more geared toward using it to his advantage in various lefty/righty matchup situations, than he was to pitch everyday. It was pretty crazy though.. I think he once had an impasse with a switch hitter, where he'd switch then the hitter would switch, so on. The baseball rules have accounted for switch hitting, but don't think they ever made rules for switch pitching (can you change hands after 2 strikes, etc).

[T206Fan]

Cy youngs 511 wins no one will ever come close or his loss total or his complete games or even games started. These and many more reasons are the reason why it's the cy young award.

[WWGjohn]

I'll also vote for Sam Crawford's 309 career triples.

John

[CW]

I voted for Cy Young's record, but I would've also included, as already mentioned, Sam Crawford's career triples record.

[WhenItWasAHobby]

Originally Posted by itjclarke

We're thinking alike Dan. To the point about ambidextrous pitchers.. There was at least one guy pitching in an independent league a few years ago that could use both arms. He had a special glove that fit either hand. He was more geared toward using it to his advantage in various lefty/righty matchup situations, than he was to pitch everyday. It was pretty crazy though.. I think he once had an impasse with a switch hitter, where he'd switch then the hitter would switch, so on. The baseball rules have accounted for switch hitting, but don't think they ever made rules for switch pitching (can you change hands after 2 strikes, etc).

Yes, great point on Wilbur Wood. He pitched on two days rest in his prime. As for the ambidextrous pitcher, my guess is that he'd more likely pitch with both arms in one game rather than alternative days so that he would have an advantage on left or right handed batters. I don't know if they made rules for switch pitching or not. It would also require a special glove. It's hard enough to make to the big leagues on one great arm, let alone two.

[yanks12025]

What about Yankees winning 5 world series in a row

[old-baseball]

Joe Sewell had:

4 Ks in 608 at bats for the Indians in 1925
6 Ks in 578 at bats for the Indians in 1926
7 Ks in 569 at bats for the Indians in 1927
4 Ks in 578 at bats for the Indians in 1929
3 Ks in 503 at bats for the Yankees in 1932
4 Ks in 524 at bats for the Yankees in 1933

For his career, he struckout out 114 times in 7132 at bats, the lowest strikeout/at bats ratio in the history of MLB (1 strikeout every 62.6 at bats).

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by yanks12025

What about Yankees winning 5 world series in a row

Brock,

I freely admit dropping the ball on that one. 5 WS Championships in a row is much more difficult than the '16 Giants streak.

When originally thinking of posting this thread, I thought of the 1869 Cincinnati Red Stockings and their 57-0 season. However, that was before the current leagues, so I looked for the best MLB substitute.

There is a whole lot of great info posted by everyone. As a numbers guy, I give thanks to all who weighed in here. It is truly appreciated.

Please carry on.

Best Regards,

Eric