Altering Photos on Cards

[ezez420]

So this was the first time cards were acquired from a particular seller. I always was curious about the advertising that they used and how every card they had was Near Mint or better. They sell everything from Common 1960s to Ty Cobbs. However, I needed to upgrade a few cards on my set registry which is why I had them purchased for me.

So 4 1948 Leaf Boxing cards were purchased which were advertised as near mint and near mint plus with great pictures and a blue background. The cards were timely received in the mail but had soft corners, chips on the border likely from a fingernail and two cards had ink stains on the cards. Clearly the auction doesn't state or show this as they are NRMT or NRMT+ with no marks whatsoever. All of these defects have all been photoshopped out. Pics of the ebay photos and actually cards for two of the cards that are very obvious.

As with these, this person is luring buyers with fancy language and altering the photos to make the cards appear to be NRMT/NRMT+. It doesn't seem like the first time that this buyer has had people question what they were really receiving. Most likely they too were actually receiving the same card but photos were being edited. This is a warning of what people do on ebay to sell something. Does anyone know how to alert ebay on this. Any help??


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[ullmandds]

Thanks for the heads up!

[CW]

Thanks for posting this, Ed! This type of behavior is not right, and is another example of fraud within the hobby.

I had this happen to me 2 years ago on an OPC Gretzky RC. After I won the eBay auction I did some searching and found the card had sold before. No big deal, but once I checked the scans of the older sale I noticed the flip was the same, but the cards looked different (the one I won had better centering and a better upper right corner).

So I message'd the seller and told them that it appeared they photoshopped their scans. I requested they cancel the transaction, which they did, but they denied any wrongdoing. I sent comparison scans to a few hobby friends, but neither of them could be certain of photoshopping.

I went back through my Gavelsnipe history to see who the seller was of the Gretzky.... Battlefield0516. This is no coincidence, and reassures me that I wasn't seeing things 2 years ago. Ed, I think you should edit your title to mention the seller by name (you can do so in advanced mode).

Here's the Gretzky comparison. The upper right corner is definitely colored in on the Battlefield0516 example on the right, and it also appears they added some right border to give the impression of better centering...

[the 'stache]

Good morning, Ez.

First of all, thank you for bringing this to everybody's attention. I will add him to my mental list of buyers to avoid.

To alert Ebay about this seller, bring up the auction you won to attain these cards. Directly to the right of the description and shipping tabs (look all the way to the right from there), you will find a "report" link. Click it.

I'd suggest "listing practices" for the report category. Reason for report, I'd go with "fraudulent listing activities". Detailed reason you have two options. The only one appropriate is "you suspect a listing is fraudulent". I believe it will then ask you for a brief description (I can't test this without filing a report). I don't remember if they will ask for any contact information. I don't believe so.

You might also ask on Ebay's forum if anybody has additional/better suggestions. But this is where I'd start.

Good luck in getting satisfaction here. This is clear misrepresentation. The guy should have his account banned, imo.

[the 'stache]

Hmm, since I've never done it, it slipped my mind. You can open a case with Ebay about the item (and by extension, the seller).

Go to the resolution center. Here's the link:

http://resolutioncenter.ebay.com/

Under "I bought an item", select "I received an item that did not match the seller's description". On the next page, it will show pictures of the items you've recently purchased. So long as the purchase was made within 30 days, you can open a case.

Take some more pictures, or better yet, if you have access to one, carefully scan the cards so you can show Ebay the difference between the pictures provided in the auction, and what you received.

Best of luck!

Bill

[Stonepony]

There is no question in my mind. Last year I bought a Joe Jackson Playball. They had photoshopped out a mark by the border. I was happy with price, so kept it. Will never bid on any of their items ever again!!! Avoid this seller!!

[iwantitiwinit]

In my opinion he is committing fraud (assuming your posts of the ebay photos are accurate). Intentionally trying to mislead. Look how he evens out the lower black border on the Lesnovich, totally takes out the overage on the bottom right border.

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

Originally Posted by iwantitiwinit

In my opinion he is committing fraud (assuming your posts of the ebay photos are accurate). Intentionally trying to mislead. Look how he evens out the lower black border on the Lesnovich, totally takes out the overage on the bottom right border.

I agree this is wrong. Please open an eBay claim against this guy.

[ezez420]

Yes, these actions are shady. I am sure more people have had dealings with this person. I am trying to refrain from posting the person's name (or likely guy who is using someone elses name).

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[conor912]

I have had the same problem with this seller. I bought a raw card and when it showed up there were several print spots/factory defects on the card that weren't on the scan. I called her on it and she said they had many of the same card and may have accidentally sent me one of the other ones. I called foul because the card was otherwise exactly the same with at least one other distinguishing mark. In the end, she didn't admit to photoshopping, but she gave me a full refund and let me keep the card. No harm in the end, I guess, but I wouldn't go back.

[JoeyF1981]

I had a similar issue with battlefield about a year ago..Cant believe people still buy from them. Very Shady!

[ooo-ribay]

Good luck, guys! Unfortunately, it's my impression that eBay doesn't care.

[midwaylandscaping]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

Good luck, guys! Unfortunately, it's my impression that eBay doesn't care.

Agreed. As long as eBay gets their $$$ that's all they care about.

[Edwolf1963]

Check this out - he/she (Battlefield0516) bought this set from prewarcardcollector back in February 2014. Described as Ex+ Now set broken up - relisted as singles by Battlefield0561 with the usual puffery over-hype language. OK, beyond all that - check out the doctoring scans! Prewar's on left, Battlefield's on right. Clearly photo-shopping these scans to make the cards look better than before. Brighter, more contrast. Rounding corners magically turn sharp! Marks and blemishes disappear!

Fraud
noun
1.
deceit, trickery, sharp practice, or breach of confidence, perpetrated for profit or to gain some unfair or dishonest advantage.

[pencil1974]

I had the same issue with dealing with them on some high end cards that I bought and paid quite a bit for. Being a graphic designer by trade for Fortune 100 companies as soon as I saw the cards I could tell that there was some heavy photoshop work done.

I complained to them and eBay, got my money back and was banned to bid on any of their auctions which was 100% fine by me since you really don't know what you are getting until it's in hand. Shady, shady, shady!

[bobbyw8469]

I didn't say anything because I just assumed everyone knew about that. There has already been threads spoken about them in the past.

[SAllen2556]

You guys are great for pointing this kind of stuff out! I almost bit the bullet on several Diamond Stars from this seller, but what caught my eye was the high negative feedback - all claiming use of stock photos. The prices were so good though - now it makes sense - not stock photos but photoshop. Pretty clever. Sleazy, but clever. Seller always responds to negatives that the card sent is the actual card - which is true!

My only question is, how is it that 99.1% of this seller's customers leave positive feedback?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Maybe it doesn't matter so much on a graded card but I liked this scan, even though I had to go to the eye doctor after looking at it (different seller).

Bottom line is I think enhancing scans is pretty common out there.

[bobbyw8469]

Battlefield has been doing that for years now. I am really surprised that you are just now catching on with them. They and Great Lakes Auction House have a history of buying nice looking PSA 4-6 cards, cracking them out, and selling them as NM/MT.

[ezez420]

Bobby,
There is a difference between cracking out and giving an opinion on a card. A person can say what they want. A picture is worth 1000 words. However, outright altering pictures is not legal.

And if you knew for many years why not speak up as it seems like many others did not.


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[Peter_Spaeth]

99.4 percent positive feedback. LOL.

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

In another thread I mentioned the importance of leaving accurate feedback (even if a refund is issued). Sellers like this are the reason why. If we allow sellers to engage in shady practices with no real consequences then they have no incentive to change their ways.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by I Only Smoke 4 the Cards

In another thread I mentioned the importance of leaving accurate feedback (even if a refund is issued). Sellers like this are the reason why. If we allow sellers to engage in shady practices with no real consequences then they have no incentive to change their ways.

Alex, fraud is different from ignorance.

[savedfrommyspokes]

Originally Posted by I Only Smoke 4 the Cards

In another thread I mentioned the importance of leaving accurate feedback (even if a refund is issued). Sellers like this are the reason why. If we allow sellers to engage in shady practices with no real consequences then they have no incentive to change their ways.

With 35 revised feedbacks, it seems that users are leaving accurate feedback, however, the users of these 35 revised feedbacks were somehow "persuaded" to revise.

[conor912]

Originally Posted by I Only Smoke 4 the Cards

In another thread I mentioned the importance of leaving accurate feedback (even if a refund is issued). Sellers like this are the reason why. If we allow sellers to engage in shady practices with no real consequences then they have no incentive to change their ways.

I had an issue recently on another item with a different seller and had a long, drawn out case ensue. Eventually I got a refund, but then I went to leave negative feedback and ebay blocked it, presumably saying that since I got a refund and was made whole that the seller didn't deserve negative feedback. It was weird, but it was the first time in years I'd tried to leave negative feedback and just figured it had been just another asinine policy change.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by conor912

I had an issue recently on another item with a different seller and had a long, drawn out case ensue. Eventually I got a refund, but then I went to leave negative feedback and ebay blocked it, presumably saying that since I got a refund and was made whole that the seller didn't deserve negative feedback. It was weird, but it was the first time in years I'd tried to leave negative feedback and just figured it had been just another asinine policy change.

I have heard of similar situations. as long as they make their percentage....

[nebboy]

More battlefield blues

[nebboy]

And here is what I got in the mail - tons of Photoshop work done

[Econteachert205]

Originally Posted by nebboy

And here is what I got in the mail - tons of Photoshop work done

Sweet god that's egregious!

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by nebboy

And here is what I got in the mail - tons of Photoshop work done

The guy photoshopped pictures of his Dick before posting it online? Shocking.

In all seriousness, I am sorry to hear that you have been inconvenienced because a seller's unethical business practices are allowed to continue on eBay.

Best regards,

Eric

[ZachS]

Originally Posted by nebboy

And here is what I got in the mail - tons of Photoshop work done

Here's the side by side in foto forensics... all that white is photoshop.

[japhi]

Originally Posted by I Only Smoke 4 the Cards

In another thread I mentioned the importance of leaving accurate feedback (even if a refund is issued). Sellers like this are the reason why. If we allow sellers to engage in shady practices with no real consequences then they have no incentive to change their ways.

This. Ebay feedback is a joke, having to return a card that was mislabeled is a waste of time and at best should get a neutral, even if a refund was given.

How many here would be happy to order the steak, receive the chicken and leave the restaurant 45 minutes later without eating.

[T2069bk]

Originally Posted by I Only Smoke 4 the Cards

In another thread I mentioned the importance of leaving accurate feedback (even if a refund is issued). Sellers like this are the reason why. If we allow sellers to engage in shady practices with no real consequences then they have no incentive to change their ways.

The only issue here is that we are on to it and don't buy from them. If you do not buy you can't leave a negative!

The buyers that purchase may not notice or care- until they go to sell.

[ezez420]

That is crazy Ed. Good find.



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[iwantitiwinit]

Assuming this is all factual and you guys have really presented a strong case wouldn't you think some type of interstate commerce laws are being breached?

[Edwolf1963]

Originally Posted by ezez420

That is crazy Ed. I think I will add that to the four neutral feedback I leave so it sticks. Good find.

My question is how do we get them thrown off ebay for fraud? Clearly that is what is going on with the photoshopping.

I can confirm those are the cards that were sent to me with the claim as NRMT to NRMT+.

I think it goes back to what some of the other posters have said, eBay doesn't really care. Battlefield has over 6000 feedbacks and what appears to be a steady stream of cards for sale - many of which they purchase from other eBay sellers, doctor scans and then flip. Can't see eBay messing with their money-stream here on both ends unless the negatives start to pile-up?

I tried to look at how to report, but the options on an item-by-item basis don't reflect listing practices - fraud - misrepresentation/image enhancement. Just schilling practice fraud. I'll be happy to report this up (whether or not they do anything with it), just not sure how beyond the "report item" link?

Re: Interstate commerce - not sure? Definitely fraud with intent to gain/profit, but I'm not sure this would be seen as small, below-the-radar type of stuff? I'm not too well versed on how this is all considered and dealt with. For now, glad you pointed this out, Ed. Bobby noted Great Lakes Auction House which does similar and I have seen previous posts on them. Great forum to alert one another! Thanks for starting and sharing this!

[chernieto]

Thanks for the post.
I too have noticed many high end card like Wagner & Young or Mathewson that look too good to be true and then get re-listed several times by this seller. I have bid on them & when I tried to contact the seller about the same items being re-listed got the usual blame the seller answers -or no response on other inquiries. If it seems to good to be true I guess it is.

I asked ebay where they stand on it- "does the sellers volume makes the misrepresentation acceptable?". Probably wasn't my place to ask but it got me mad. Hopefully the seller will have to represent more accurately in the future

[Peter_Spaeth]

Ebay is not going to fix this problem, in my opinion. Law enforcement is the better hope.

[thecatspajamas]

To Ebay, giving the buyer their money back IS fixing the problem. If you want them to do anything to censure the seller, you have to join a bunch of other buyers in squawking about one seller. If they start racking up lots of negs, not only will it affect the seller's fee structure and item appearances in "Best Match" searches, it will also raise the red flag that something is going on. I'm not sure how much or what percentage it would take for them to actually boot a longstanding seller, but a handful of isolated neutrals or negatives isn't going to do it.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Ebay is not going to fix this problem, in my opinion. Law enforcement is the better hope.

+1...Good luck with Ebay

[bobbyw8469]

The cards still go high, and don't look like past images when I find the cards in VCP......very odd.

[ezez420]

There seems to be quite a bit of evidence of tampering with the cards.


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