Cards cracked from holders.Resubmitted

[smallpaul2002]

Well, I cracked some cards from various holders and submitted the cards "raw" to PSA and asked them to be graded with NO Qualifiers. I collect hockey cards so the results will likely vary to other sports. Generally speaking I'm pretty happy with the results but, there are definitely some discrepancies..without a doubt KSA cards are risky...Here are the results..

Cards submitted..1965 Topps Hockey

Toe Blake was Beckett 7 now PSA 8
Gump Worsley was SGC 7 now PSA 7
Jean Beliveau was KSA 8 now PSA 5
Billy Harris was "raw" now PSA 6.5
Glenn Hall was "raw" now PSA 5
Al MacNeil was Beckett 7 now PSA 6
Stan Mikita was SGC 8 now PSA 8
Ken Wharram was "raw" now PSA 8 (looked like a 9 to me)
Terry Harper was Becket 7 now PSA 5
Tim Horton was KSA 8 now PSA 7
Frank Mahovlich was Becket 7 now PSA 6
Phil Goyette was KSA 7 now PSA 6
Elmer vasko was "raw" now PSA 7
Phil Esposito was "raw" now PSA 4.5 (Card had great colour and centring, was looking for a grade between 5 or 6)

Last but not least #121 Checklist (unmarked and slightly off centre) was KSA 8 now PSA 5

The results speak for themselves, cracking out cards carries some risk, but finding a good "raw" card is likely the best route to go..KSA graded cards are definitely not worth "cracking out of their holders"..Do so at your own peril.

[D.P.Johnson]

Interesting.
Thank you for posting this.

[Shoebox]

I think the fact that none of the KSA cards came back as altered is something of a good sign though. I certainly wouldn't trust that you could duplicate that with a similar number of GAI graded cards.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by Shoebox

I think the fact that none of the KSA cards came back as altered is something of a good sign though. I certainly wouldn't trust that you could duplicate that with a similar number of GAI graded cards.

Agreed, I bought a ksa gretzky 8.5 rc in a whim, hoping it was not trimmed.


Awaiting the results!

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by Shoebox

I think the fact that none of the KSA cards came back as altered is something of a good sign though. I certainly wouldn't trust that you could duplicate that with a similar number of GAI graded cards.

I cracked and crossed 20 GAI cards. All received numerical grades.

[Leon]

Grading by any company is a crapshoot at best ....

I bought 13 raw and trimmed cards at a National one time and 12 came back with numerical grades. It happens.

Originally Posted by frankbmd

I cracked and crossed 20 GAI cards. All received numerical grades.

[Stampsfan]

Originally Posted by Leon

Grading by any company is a crapshoot at best ....

I bought 13 raw and trimmed cards at a National one time and 12 came back with numerical grades. It happens.

This only happens to other people...

[Scocs]

What's KSA? Never heard of them or have ever seen one....

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Canadian company with a decent reputation. they exist mainly because of the crazy expense of sending expensive packages across national borders.

[HercDriver]

I won one of those "grab bag" sort of lots in an REA auction a few years back. It included a bunch of trimmed T207s, so I didn't even price them into my bid. I sent them in and got back 5s and 6s. Crazy...

[irv]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Canadian company with a decent reputation. they exist mainly because of the crazy expense of sending expensive packages across national borders.

At last years Toronto Spring Expo, BMW was there as soon as you walked in the front door.
He had a huge amount of cards for sale, including many high end 52 Topps cards all graded by KSA?

I found this odd, especially since they are from Wisconsin, but thought maybe sending them north was cheaper than sending somewhere in their own Country?

I also thought, if he/they do the T.O. show frequently, then maybe they have cards set aside specially for the Expo?

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Canadian company with a decent reputation. they exist mainly because of the crazy expense of sending expensive packages across national borders.

Never knew that was their MO.....

[irv]

Originally Posted by Leon

Never knew that was their MO.....

They have been around for quite some time so I am not sure if that is the only reason they are in business?

From the reading/research I have done, they are generally good at grading hockey but are lacking in their baseball skills.

Personally, I try to avoid purchasing KSA graded cards. Seeing cards slabbed by KSA and the grades they hand out, on vintage anyways, makes me uncomfortable.

Not sure how long they have been doing it, but some recent 52 Topps cards I seen graded by KSA, looked like they were graded by PSA as their logo was/is very close to what PSA's looks like.

[ty_cobb]

An interesting post but poses more questions than answers? The first poster states that he broke out the KSA holders on the chance of upgrading, which didnt go as expected, that BMW showed up to a Toronto show with a whackload of them anyway, (does that mean he gets good KSA grades so he doesnt even bother bringing his SGC stuff across the border? I don't know ,,,lol)

and then maybe the market has de-volved (not evolved) to the point where we are breaking out slabbed cards on the hope of getting 1 higher grade at the next grading service, but how lucrative can that be if its not a Hof'er? I dont know. I realize there were folks wanted to make a buck from buying raw to getting it graded.It s human nature.

Now its trying to get the 4 to a 4.5 'if' we change the holder.
Its the same card it was the day before it got entombed! Do you really want $200 commons in slabs that should be $50 or less. thats the question I would ask.

[toledo_mudhen]

Originally Posted by smallpaul2002

The results speak for themselves, cracking out cards carries some risk, but finding a good "raw" card is likely the best route to go..KSA graded cards are definitely not worth "cracking out of their holders"..Do so at your own peril.

My experience with Beckett is the same - Crack at your own peril. Usually 1 full grade less as evidenced by 3 of your 4 subs.

[tedzan]

I am not much of a fan of the card grading system. I think that some times the grading can be quite arbitrary. For example......years ago I acquired this Jennings card
which had been graded SGC A. It "bugged" me that SGC had not given it a numerical grade, so recently I cracked it open and submitted it back to SGC. And this time,
SGC graded it an SGC 60.

Hey, I'm not complaining. I like the Ex grade (which, in my opinion this card should have been graded initially).







TED Z
.

[aljurgela]

... Grading companies are providing an opinion. That is all. At one particular time somebody who has some training and experience looking at cards thought that the card was in a certain condition... I was just looking at a PSA 9 that I have that has a bent corner... ughh.... It happens... both ways.... It doesn't really bother me unless it is terribly obvious... but even that it understandable with the law of averages... Just my 2 cents... I agree that the 1911 AB should have gotten a numerical grade if the size measures up...

Unless high end computers were doing the work... we will always have these discrepancies....

[Stampsfan]

Originally Posted by irv

From the reading/research I have done, they are generally good at grading hockey but are lacking in their baseball skills.

This makes no sense. Do rounded corners, creases, and sizing appear different on hockey cards than baseball cards?

How are they on football cards? Do they struggle to see condition issues on football cards, but not on hockey cards?

[bobbyw8469]

I may be in the minority, but I think the "A" grade was the correct grade on the Jennings. It looks really skinny from left to right.

[Stonepony]

ABs are all skinny L/R , I think it looks good too.

[2dueces]

Is KSA the same as CSA? I know CSA was a Canadian company years ago. I sent some Jordan Star cards to them long before Beckett graded them. Just wondering what their reputation is today?

[sterlingfox]

KSA has no relation to CSA, as far as I know.

CSA newer flips with the hologram = very likely trimmed
CSA older ugly blue or red flips = probably good, but maybe a bit overgraded

[irv]

Originally Posted by Stampsfan

This makes no sense. Do rounded corners, creases, and sizing appear different on hockey cards than baseball cards?

How are they on football cards? Do they struggle to see condition issues on football cards, but not on hockey cards?

I don't know, you'd have to ask them or these guys.
http://vintagehockeyforum.com/forum/...over-questions
http://www.network54.com/Forum/38176.../1/KSA+Grading
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=140481

[2dueces]

Originally Posted by sterlingfox

KSA has no relation to CSA, as far as I know.

CSA newer flips with the hologram = very likely trimmed
CSA older ugly blue or red flips = probably good, but maybe a bit overgraded

These are the older blue flips. Hard to tell if they are over graded but likely I'm sure. I'm thinking of busting them out and sending them to Beckett. They were $5 and $10 cards back in 1990 so nothing lost if they come back lower than the 8's and 9's they are now.

Thank you.

[Leon]

Interesting summation. I have had much better luck buying raw and getting graded than cracking out and regrading.

Originally Posted by smallpaul2002

Well, I cracked some cards from various holders and submitted the cards "raw" to PSA and asked them to be graded with NO Qualifiers. I collect hockey cards so the results will likely vary to other sports. Generally speaking I'm pretty happy with the results but, there are definitely some discrepancies..without a doubt KSA cards are risky...Here are the results..

Cards submitted..1965 Topps Hockey

Toe Blake was Beckett 7 now PSA 8
Gump Worsley was SGC 7 now PSA 7
Jean Beliveau was KSA 8 now PSA 5
Billy Harris was "raw" now PSA 6.5
Glenn Hall was "raw" now PSA 5
Al MacNeil was Beckett 7 now PSA 6
Stan Mikita was SGC 8 now PSA 8
Ken Wharram was "raw" now PSA 8 (looked like a 9 to me)
Terry Harper was Becket 7 now PSA 5
Tim Horton was KSA 8 now PSA 7
Frank Mahovlich was Becket 7 now PSA 6
Phil Goyette was KSA 7 now PSA 6
Elmer vasko was "raw" now PSA 7
Phil Esposito was "raw" now PSA 4.5 (Card had great colour and centring, was looking for a grade between 5 or 6)

Last but not least #121 Checklist (unmarked and slightly off centre) was KSA 8 now PSA 5

The results speak for themselves, cracking out cards carries some risk, but finding a good "raw" card is likely the best route to go..KSA graded cards are definitely not worth "cracking out of their holders"..Do so at your own peril.