Baseball thrown by Babe Ruth as a pitcher for the Red Sox

[Shoeless Moe]

My greatest find!

Game Used Baseball from the Famous 1917 Timothy Murnane Benefit Game.

This game featured the 1917 Red Sox vs a Team of Major League All Stars (Shoeless Joe Jackson, Ty Cobb, Walter Johnson, Tris Speaker, Buck Weaver, Ray Chapman and more!)

Before 1921, it was common for a baseball to be in play for over 100 pitches. Players used the same ball until it started to unravel. Early baseball leagues were very cost-conscious, so fans had to throw back balls that had been hit into the stands. The longer the ball was in play, the softer it became—and hitting a heavily used, softer ball for distance is much more difficult than hitting a new, harder one. The ball itself was softer to begin with, probably making home runs less likely.



About the game itself:

More than 17,000 people gathered at Fenway Park out of respect to his memory and more than $13,000 was contributed to his memorial fund. Entertainment of the highest possible caliber lasted from 2 PM until 5 PM and the only regrettable thing about it was that Murnane was not there to see it. The weather conditions were perfect and it seemed as if the day was made to order for the occasion.

Incidentally, the Red Sox defeated the All-Stars, 2 to 0 in a great game. There were some interesting contests before the game. Mike McNally of the Red Sox equaled the world's record in getting down the first base on a bunt in a time of 3.25 seconds. Ray Chapman was not far behind the record for circling the bases. Joe Jackson made a throw of 396 feet, 8 inches which is pretty close to the best performance on record. Dutch Leonard hit the open end of a barrel, sitting on a box at second base, on his first row from home plate, beating the likes of Duffy Lewis, Ty Cobb, Harry Hooper, Joe Jackson, Sam Agnew, Pinch Thomas, Wally Schang and Walter Johnson couldn't do it in three attempts. Babe Ruth won the fungo hitting contest, hitting the ball 402 ft, 8 inches.

Will Rogers was there with his cow pony and circled the park at top speed, whirling a lariat that had a loop that seemed to be about 30 feet in diameter. Then with Tris Speaker and Ty Cobb riding the horse, Rogers gave a thrilling exhibition of rope work. He finished by coaching third base for the Red Sox in the ballgame.

Hughie Jennings, coached the All-Stars with the assistance of heavyweight champ John L Sullivan. Rabbit Maranville got the crowd going when he squared off in front of John L. and ducked out of the way of his swing.

The game was a gem, Babe Ruth and Rube Foster making the All-Stars look like Bush Leaguers. Three hits were made off the Babe and the one by Cobb was an infield scratch. Nothing like a hit was even close off Foster. Urban Shocker, Howard Ehmke and Walter Johnson did the pitching for the All-Stars and it was reserved for Walter to be charged with the loss of the game.

Shocker was hit for a triple in the first inning, a double in the second, and a single in the third but he always tightened up in the pinches. Ehmke worked for the next three innings and in two of them, got by without being nicked.

In the sixth inning, a base on balls was followed by a fumble by the Rabbit on a hard-hit ball by Duffy Lewis, Tilly Walker then came through with a smashing single to center and it looked as though the Red Sox would finally score. But a great throw by Joe Jackson and a lightning play by Wally Schang at the plate nailed Dick Hoblitzell as he slid wide.

The Red Sox pulled off their batting rally against Johnson in the eighth inning after two were out. Jack Barry started off with a single to left. Hobby hit a sharp bounder over Walter's head, which he had misjudged, letting it go through without a try, thinking Maranville or Chapman would field the ball and make the force play at second base. But the ball was going so fast, it shot between them into center field. Duffy Lewis was next up and what he did to the ball was good enough. He met it squarely on the nose and sent it sailing off the centerfield bleacher wall for a triple, scoring Barry and Hobby to bust up the game.

The All-Stars did not have a right fielder who can play the sun in right field. Jackson, Speaker and Cobb alternated in each of the three outfield positions. While playing in left field during the second inning, Speaker almost spoiled Tilly Walker's double, going up the bank on the run and having the ball fall out of his glove when he fell down.

The big crowd was rooting hard for the Red Sox to win, but they were always ready to applaud the players on the opposing team, Johnson and Cobb being the favorites. Maranville only had two chances, but in practice he gave the crowd a thrill with some trick fielding.


As noted earlier balls back then were used the entire game thus I fully believe this ball was pitched by Babe Ruth and Walter Johnson, and hit by Shoeless Joe and Cobb, among others. No way of ever knowing for certain but with the facts in place its highly likely.

[pherbener]

That is amazing Paul!!

[Scott Garner]

Great ball, Paul!

[johnmh71]

Great item. As someone who also collects Red Sox dynasty stuff, I feel that ball is about as good as it gets. It gets forgotten how good that team was between 1912 and 1918

[parker1b2]

Awesome Ball!!!!

[vintagesportscollector]

That All Stars game is very interesting Paul, where did you find this ball?

[Shoeless Moe]

Thanks all!!!

Joe - I'll pm ya.

[vintagesportscollector]

Cool. I find it interesting that apparently the original owner had no appreciation for the ball. Looks like after it was inscribed and dated, some kid played with it for years, as much of the wear is post inscription (Sandlot?? ). Congrats Paul! There are still finds to be had.

[Shoeless Moe]

Originally Posted by vintagesportscollector

Cool. I find it interesting that apparently the original owner had no appreciation for the ball. Looks like after it was inscribed and dated, some kid played with it for years, as much of the wear is post inscription (Sandlot?? ). Congrats Paul! There are still finds to be had.

Joe - I'm no expert, but I think the wear is pre-inscription. That's just the way balls looked after 9 innings back then, look at most any game used ball from that period.

Check out these 2 Mathewson related ones that went at SCP in the summer:

http://catalog.scpauctions.com/bids/...e?itemid=30782

http://catalog.scpauctions.com/bids/...e?itemid=30781

Had this ball been played with on the sandlot, that inscription would be faint if not gone completely.


This guy may have seen the sandlot:

https://sports.ha.com/itm/baseball/1...ription-071515

[vintagesportscollector]

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

Joe - I'm no expert, but I think the wear is pre-inscription. That's just the way balls looked after 9 innings back then, look at most any game used ball from that period.

I don't think so - some of that wear is post inscription. Not that it really matters either way. There is hole right between the A and R in "Stars" that clearly was put there post inscription. Again, doesn't matter, I just found that interesting.

[ruth-gehrig]

That's an awesome find! Congrats. Now I'm wondering if it's for sale

[Shoeless Moe]

Thanks.....it is for sale, but it will most likely go to an Auction House next year. Unless blown away by an offer.

I've been contacted by 2 auction houses already that want it in their next auction. I like when they contact me and I don't have to go to them : )

[oldjudge]

Paul--How does one know that someone didn't just locate a ball from 1917 and write the score and date on it. How can an LOA be written that a ball is used in a particular game without a tremendous leap of faith?

Jay

[Shoeless Moe]

Don't need a tremendous leap of faith at all. It's just like an autographed ball from that time frame or any. Pretty sure no one on this board who owns an autographed baseball by Ruth, or anyone for that matter saw them sign it. The autograph or writing on the ball and the ball itself can be analyzed.



Here's a few other game used balls:

http://catalog.scpauctions.com/bids/...e?itemid=30781

http://catalog.scpauctions.com/bids/...e?itemid=30782

https://sports.ha.com/itm/baseball/1...ription-071515

https://sports.ha.com/itm/baseball/1...ription-071515

https://sports.ha.com/itm/baseball/1...ription-071515

[oldjudge]

In nearly all cases you don't try to associate an autographed baseball with a particular game. I don't care when a Babe Ruth ball was signed, only that Ruth signed it. Here you are trying to associate this ball with a particular game, with no proof, as far as I can see, that the ball was there (except for the score and date). If this ball had come from the estate of a player in the game, with letters of provenance or pictures of the player holding the ball, then I think you would have something. How an authenticator would write an LOA on the ball, saying it was from a specific game, is beyond my understanding.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

In nearly all cases you don't try to associate an autographed baseball with a particular game. I don't care when a Babe Ruth ball was signed, only that Ruth signed it. Here you are trying to associate this ball with a particular game, with no proof, as far as I can see, that the ball was there (except for the score and date). If this ball had come from the estate of a player in the game, with letters of provenance or pictures of the player holding the ball, then I think you would have something. How an authenticator would write an LOA on the ball, saying it was from a specific game, is beyond my understanding.

MEARS stated on the LOA they based their findings on the inscription on the ball. That is their leap of faith. I don't collect these sort of things but understand leaps of faith. It seems like a fair debate with this ball....

edited to add, it looks like these type baseball can easily go for thousands of dollars. That is interesting.

[Shoeless Moe]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

In nearly all cases you don't try to associate an autographed baseball with a particular game. I don't care when a Babe Ruth ball was signed, only that Ruth signed it. Here you are trying to associate this ball with a particular game, with no proof, as far as I can see, that the ball was there (except for the score and date). If this ball had come from the estate of a player in the game, with letters of provenance or pictures of the player holding the ball, then I think you would have something. How an authenticator would write an LOA on the ball, saying it was from a specific game, is beyond my understanding.

Jay, I understand what you are saying, but your not understanding the point on the autograph comparison. I didn't say tying it to agame, I'm saying they are authenticated in a similar fashion. I know I'm not comparing Apples to Apples with using the autograph example, but just similar in the sense that JSA/PSA/MEARS etc use their analysis to determine genuine or not.

Did you pull up the 5/6 examples of game used balls with no letters of provenance (hell can you trust those, maybe yes maybe no), what provenance did they all have? Game used balls from that period are not really faked, but I'm sure they could be like anything and everything in this hobby - autographs, broadsides, display pieces, trophy inscriptions, cards obviously, anything can be faked.

But again if you are a fan of game used balls or what have you and you know what to look for, as does MEARS, Heritage, etc. you can tell with, let's say 95% certainty, and that is good enough for me.

I like game used balls because they were part of the game itself unlike cards (and I know I'm in the minority on that), but to each their own, but I have seen and handled several over the years to be able to tell if genuine.......with 95% certainty that is, very small leap of faith for me, but yes perhaps a bigger leap of faith for someone not into game used balls.

[Frank's Mustard]

The purveyor of fine mustard thanks the shoeless one for his interest in the hobby, knowledge and integrity in providing this 100 year old artifact for auction. To behold it in person, is to appreciate its historic qualities. In fact, one might say that the leap of faith necessary to accept its authenticity is simply a matter of also believing in the humanity that brought together the exceptional group of athletes, coaches, owners, celebrities and fans who participated as humanitarians in an effort to help the family of one of their beloved sportswriters who passed away too young. This baseball, o shoeless one, represents what is truly wonderful for all of us who admire the sport of baseball. And I am pleased to hold it in trust for future generations to also appreciate. Thank you.

[Shoeless Moe]

Why thank you......now please don't get any mustard on it. Although since Ruth once most likely held it, he may have beat ya to it.

[Frank's Mustard]

I could not agree with you more, shoeless. One can envision the Babe during the pre-game festivities, chatting with Fanny Brice while munching on a ballpark frank with mustard and watching Will Rogers performing rope tricks on horseback. Then, afterwards, the Babe participating in a fungo-hitting contest, which he won with that drive of 402 feet. Goodness gracious, o shoeless swami, what a day September 27, 1917 in Fenway Park must have been.

[witster]

Originally Posted by vintagesportscollector

I don't think so - some of that wear is post inscription. Not that it really matters either way. There is hole right between the A and R in "Stars" that clearly was put there post inscription. Again, doesn't matter, I just found that interesting.

In years past, baseballs were often hung, dangling on a string. That's why you would occasionally see old balls with a hole, or even staples in them. I've got a book with a picture of an old Pittsburgh Pirate announcer Rosey Rowswell with his "collection" of hanging baseballs. There were eBay auctions for quite a few of them last year. I was lucky enough to get one with a rusted staple.

It's period to the practice. Baseballs were also used/re-purposed by kids.
I really imagine that it would be difficult to just go and buy a ball when you don't have the means.

There's no conceivable way to prove those players actually interacted with that particular ball. That being said, the fascination that exists because they may have, only makes this ball that much more of a treasure. The ball breathed the same air, let's say.

Either way, its an exciting ball to still have existed all these years, with even more of a historical presence. "So, you're telling me there is a chance?" ?
I think Crocodile Dundee would say better than average. Awesome ball.

Witster

[packs]

Well the story checks out. Although both the A's and White Sox played games that day none of the named players appeared in the official MLB games.