Am I sunk? PayPal claim not going my way.

[njdunkin1]

Hey all. Woke up this morning with a lovely negative balance of 50.00 subtracted to my account. Apparently, a buyer had been unhappy because he "received no product from me", even though I shipped out on the first of December.
I guess the package has been lost? Shouldn't the buyer have taken this up with USPS? Either way, I have been on hold with PayPal for about 10 minutes in hopes of reaching the right person to help me with this case. Any tips or suggestions?
NJ

[Eggoman]

Does your package have a tracking number? You may be able to prove that you shipped it.

[njdunkin1]

Originally Posted by Eggoman

Does your package have a tracking number? You may be able to prove that you shipped it.

Yes, I have it here (shipped through PayPal):

https://tools.usps.com/go/TrackConfi...99937115665312

[Eggoman]

Can you research the tracking Number to see if it indicates the current location of the package? (Careful, the USPS can be "a tad pokey" about updating this info.)

But you may be able to use this info with PayPal to PROVE that you indeed DID ship the card.

IF there is confirmation by the USPS that they did deliver the package, that may be enough...good luck!

[KMayUSA6060]

With the tracking number provided, this seems to point directly to USPS, and you should be in the clear.

[ramram]

your current battle is with USPS, until or unless, it actually gets delivered. If you have insurance on it, you will need to pursue that via USPS's policy.

[slidekellyslide]

Looks to me like USPS lost your package. Paypal won't care, they will take your money because it didn't get delivered. You need to take it up with USPS at this point.

[edhans]

Originally Posted by njdunkin1

Any tips or suggestions?
NJ

Easy. Don't take PayPal.

[njdunkin1]

Appreciate the feedback, everyone. After speaking with Gabriella over at PayPal, she recommends taking things up with USPS to find the package. Essentially, once delivered, I get the funds returned to me...now to just wait 30 more minutes on the wait line for USPS

I'll contact my buyer and let him know the steps I am taking in order to resolve this. I just get surprised when I receive no messaging from the buyer, stating he/she is unhappy!
NJ

[rats60]

Originally Posted by edhans

Easy. Don't take PayPal.

It is the shipper's responsibility to get the package to the buyer. He chooses the shipping company and has the option to purchase insurance. I hope you aren't saying that you should take someone's money and not deliver the product.

[Touch'EmAll]

I recently had same situation happen to me. I sold card on eBay, buyer paid. Then I immediately sent it out with tracking number included. Two weeks later, I get an eBay "claim started" against me because buyer never received it. I am thinking WTF, I did everything I was supposed to do, and promptly. I too had money deducted and on hold at Paypal. Who now stands to lose? Buyer or Seller (me)? I went to Post Office to inquire and they basically told me NOTHING to do but wait, sorry charlie. Thankfully, a few days later the tracking showed now in continue route to buyer - and was infact delivered few days later. Whew! Ultimately if lost in mail, I honestly do not know what would happen next - who absorbs loss, buyer or seller. Good luck. Hope it works out for you.

[ibuysportsephemera]

2 comments...one good and one not so good:

1) I have posted many times in the past how to get a package going again in the USPS website....sign up for the email updates. For some reason this works really well. Any packages that I have had delayed magically show up when doing this.

2) The buyer is savvy and realized that the package was delivered without being scanned. He started a claim knowing that the package will never show up.

Good luck.

Jeff

[Sean1125]

It is the sellers responsibility to get a package delivered to the buyer. If a package gets lost in transit or does not arrive it is solely the sellers responsibility to contact shipping or refund the buyer their money. As described, you are not in the right on this claim and unless you can get the package found and delivered you will be out the money.

[quinnsryche]

Originally Posted by Sean1125

It is the sellers responsibility to get a package delivered to the buyer. If a package gets lost in transit or does not arrive it is solely the sellers responsibility to contact shipping or refund the buyer their money. As described, you are not in the right on this claim and unless you can get the package found and delivered you will be out the money.

Sean is 100% correct. With thousands of transactions on eBay with Paypal, I have found the package MUST show as delivered or you are out the money. No way around it. I have heard stories that even delivered packages have resulted in a refund if the buyer says "well, it may have been delivered, but I never got it." You hope people don't try and pull that but it has happened. Contacting USPS is your only recourse at this point. Most packages are automatically insured for $50 so you might still come out even in the end.

[jfkheat]

Originally Posted by quinnsryche

Most packages are automatically insured for $50 so you might still come out even in the end.

This is true if the package was shipped priority mail. It looks like this one was shipped first class. If the shipper didn't buy insurance, there is none. That being said, I hate that the post office wants people to pay for insurance to insure that their job is done correctly.
James

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by jfkheat

This is true if the package was shipped priority mail. It looks like this one was shipped first class. If the shipper didn't buy insurance, there is none. That being said, I hate that the post office wants people to pay for insurance to insure that their job is done correctly.
James

To collect on postal insurance for a one hundred year old baseball card can be quite difficult. I've been told that unless you have a third party appraisal of the value, it's just a 25 cent baseball card. The same rules apply to all antiques.

I generally let others subsidize the post office through their insurance program.

[njdunkin1]

A spark of good news this morning in the case - I was able to reach Paul at USPS . He helped me file out a missing mail request and gave me some tips as to what action I should take. The odds of nobody scanning the package even when it made it to Massachusetts would be astronomical. The buyer is on board, so I think (barring no more incidents) I am on the right path here.

[Touch'EmAll]

So what does the seller do to make sure they are not responsible once shipped? From what you all say, a tracking number is not enough. Do you folks most ship normal first class and just hope it gets to destination? Or ALWAYS priority mail it? Or do you always buy additional insurance - even if only $50. coverage? What does big sellers like Probstein or PWCC do - say, on a $100. to $300. item - do they insure it - or just let it fly first class - or Priority it for the minimal $50. insurance?

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by ibuysportsephemera

2 comments...one good and one not so good:

1) I have posted many times in the past how to get a package going again in the USPS website....sign up for the email updates. For some reason this works really well. Any packages that I have had delayed magically show up when doing this.

2) The buyer is savvy and realized that the package was delivered without being scanned. He started a claim knowing that the package will never show up.

Good luck.

Jeff

I have also found signing up for email update magically works most times.

As far as #2 some sellers send empty boxes to the correct address. On eBay there is bad buyers and sellers. They are few and far between but it really sucks when you run across one.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by quinnsryche

Sean is 100% correct. With thousands of transactions on eBay with Paypal, I have found the package MUST show as delivered or you are out the money. No way around it. I have heard stories that even delivered packages have resulted in a refund if the buyer says "well, it may have been delivered, but I never got it." You hope people don't try and pull that but it has happened.

Yup, I have had that happen a few times over the years. Oftentimes Paypal would pay out on those anyways to keep a customer happy, but luckily it came out of their till, and not mine.

I wonder with the Paypal split from Ebay, whether they would even do THAT anymore.

I've also had a few cases where the package showed delivered, and the person on the other end insisted they never got it. Well, it's amazing how many of those magically get found in an unexplored portion of the house when you return reply with the phrase "OK, I will file a stolen package report with your local post office then, since stealing mail is a Federal crime".

[Sean1125]

Originally Posted by 100backstroke

So what does the seller do to make sure they are not responsible once shipped? From what you all say, a tracking number is not enough. Do you folks most ship normal first class and just hope it gets to destination? Or ALWAYS priority mail it? Or do you always buy additional insurance - even if only $50. coverage? What does big sellers like Probstein or PWCC do - say, on a $100. to $300. item - do they insure it - or just let it fly first class - or Priority it for the minimal $50. insurance?

For IIB, packages under $200 are self insured. Everything above $200 is insured with a $200 deductible.

It is not economical to insure small packages.

I am actually familiar with a large seller that has no insurance whatsoever.

[Sean]

Large sellers usually require that the package is signed for, not just "delivered."

[Jobu]

If you ship a lot/ship expensive cards you might consider private insurance as you can pay a huge portion of your annual premium in saved insurance costs that you no longer have to pay to USPS/UPS/FedEx. Not to mention you get the benefit of covering your entire collection every day of the year.

With this insurance you never need to buy any when you ship, you only need to follow the carrier and signature requirements stated by the company (which are based on the value of the item you send). I, and I think many others on the board, use these guys (https://collectinsure.com/). If you lost $50 it wouldn't be worth making a claim b/c, if memory serves, that is the deductible, so in this case you would probably be SOL.

[Jewish-collector]

Send everything certified. Never had a problem.

[Sterling Sports Auctions]

I recently sold a marble chess set on ebay and sent it through Paypal USPS. The trailer the package was in burned up. I thought the buyer had buyers remorse and checked it out only to find it was true. Waiting on confirmation of refund and Paypal has the funds on hold in right now. Who would have believed.

Shameless plug, current auction ends tomorrow. :-)

Happy Holidays Everyone,

Lee Behrens

[Jobu]

For expensive items I also slowly film all sides of the box and then open it on camera. Perhaps a little paranoid, but I'll be damned if someone is going to send me an 87 Topps Jim Gantner when I am expecting Cy Young.

[ibuysportsephemera]

Originally Posted by Jobu

For expensive items I also slowly film all sides of the box and then open it on camera. Perhaps a little paranoid, but I'll be damned if someone is going to send me an 87 Topps Jim Gantner when I am expecting Cy Young.

This is also a good idea if you are a seller and a buyer requests a refund and sends your items back to you. You do not want to deal with the old switcharoo.

Jeff

[Gary Dunaier]

Originally Posted by Jobu

For expensive items I also slowly film all sides of the box and then open it on camera. Perhaps a little paranoid, but I'll be damned if someone is going to send me an 87 Topps Jim Gantner when I am expecting Cy Young.

One seller sent my card in a toploader, sealed with a "tamper seal" sticker inscribed "not returnable if seal is broken." However, before applying the sticker the seller stuck his business card inside, so there was no way for me to inspect the card without breaking the seal to remove the business card.

[njdunkin1]

Originally Posted by Gary Dunaier

One seller sent my card in a toploader, sealed with a "tamper seal" sticker inscribed "not returnable if seal is broken."

That's borderline sleazy. I don't find that good business at all.

[7nohitter]

Originally Posted by Gary Dunaier

One seller sent my card in a toploader, sealed with a "tamper seal" sticker inscribed "not returnable if seal is broken." However, before applying the sticker the seller stuck his business card inside, so there was no way for me to inspect the card without breaking the seal to remove the business card.

The seller can put that ridiculous seal on the top loader, but it can certainly be returned.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by 7nohitter

The seller can put that ridiculous seal on the top loader, but it can certainly be returned.

Larry Fritch Cards used to do the same thing with the seal (but not the business card). They told me that they did so so that people couldn't replace the card with a similar card in lesser condition and return the inferior card, claiming that it was the card that they had received and demanding a full refund. I never had a problem with one of their cards, so I never asked to return one.

[egbeachley]

Originally Posted by 7nohitter

The seller can put that ridiculous seal on the top loader, but it can certainly be returned.

Not that it really matters since the card can be returned if seal is broken. But here are 2 alternate solutions:

Cut the other end open, seal is intact

Buy a package of tamper-resistant seals and replace.

[Rich Klein]

Originally Posted by 7nohitter

The seller can put that ridiculous seal on the top loader, but it can certainly be returned.

Teddy is a long-time friend of mine (I even went to his wedding back in the day) so I'm sure he has a logical reason for doing that. Nothing nefarious in what he does

Rich

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Gary Dunaier

One seller sent my card in a toploader, sealed with a "tamper seal" sticker inscribed "not returnable if seal is broken." However, before applying the sticker the seller stuck his business card inside, so there was no way for me to inspect the card without breaking the seal to remove the business card.

Originally Posted by Rich Klein

Teddy is a long-time friend of mine (I even went to his wedding back in the day) so I'm sure he has a logical reason for doing that. Nothing nefarious in what he does

Rich

He could be your friend but check out his feedback. I have seen him called out over on BO for sending out empty packages and other shady things several times. Here is a link to one of them.

http://www.blowoutcards.com/forums/b...-bgs-card.html

[Rich Klein]

I sent him a copy of that thread as an FYI

[Bill77]

Not trying to high jack the thread, but I won an auction on Tuesday. The seller has not taken the payment yet and the scans of the card are clearly 2 different cards. Should I just cancel the payment now or wait a little longer and hope I can get my money back if he ever claims the payment?

The auction is here:http://www.ebay.com/itm/1909-T206-Je...p2047675.l2557

[effe]

Originally Posted by Bill77

Not trying to high jack the thread, but I won an auction on Tuesday. The seller has not taken the payment yet and the scans of the card are clearly 2 different cards. Should I just cancel the payment now or wait a little longer and hope I can get my money back if he ever claims the payment?

The auction is here:http://www.ebay.com/itm/1909-T206-Je...p2047675.l2557

Why don't you just wait and see what you receive? The scans could have been an honest mistake.

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by Rich Klein

I sent him a copy of that thread as an FYI

Send him these too:
http://www.blowoutcards.com/forums/m...j-say-all.html

He has also been regularly accused on BO for selling fake autographs by consignment.

[Bill77]

I think I just found the front scan of the card on Bob Lemke's blog. http://boblemke.blogspot.com/2014/11...ge-landis.html

[Sean]

It does appear to be the same card.

[buymycards]

Hi NJ, I tried to get more info on your package when I was at work today. It looks like it went through the parcel handling center in Oak Creek, WI and then totally disappeared. I can't find any info at all on this package after it arrived at Oak Creek. That tracking number should have showed up somewhere, but I can't find it anywhere.

Rick

[njdunkin1]

Originally Posted by buymycards

Hi NJ, I tried to get more info on your package when I was at work today. It looks like it went through the parcel handling center in Oak Creek, WI and then totally disappeared. I can't find any info at all on this package after it arrived at Oak Creek. That tracking number should have showed up somewhere, but I can't find it anywhere.

Rick

Hi Mr. Rick--thank you for taking a look. I have lowered my expectations to rock bottom, so (in a good way ) I'm not waiting around for the package to show. Paid a little tuition to learn something, but I'm grateful it wasn't a $500 card!
Cheers,
NJ

[frankbmd]

Never say never!

I once lost some cards in Oak Creek for three weeks that I feared were sunk.
They found me upon surfacing.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

Never say never!

I once lost some cards in Oak Creek for three weeks that I feared were sunk.
They found me upon surfacing.

If my memory is correct we(Frank and I) had one that was lost for a short time. I can also say that I have had packages lost for up to 45 days with members including one with Leon that took about a month going each way. Can give the USPS a big thumbs up on never losing a single one of my packages. They have taken several weeks to deliver 100's of them though.