Fake raw Hindu's on ebay?

[HobokenJon]

The ink on the back looks purple. T206 Resource says Conroy fielding is a "probable no print" in a Hindu. Naturally this seller calls it a "one of only one." He has several raw Hindu's up for auction.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/T206-1909-Wh..._qi=RTM2247625

[JustinD]

Not a good thing when the pristine white paper shows on the tears and creases the seller added after the paper was artificially aged...

[Tao_Moko]

No question about it. Fake (eric sh@rp)

[ctownboy]

Looked at cards again and rethought my opinion.

David

[Jeffrompa]

Some folks just taking a shot ..

[RCMcKenzie]

The seller is also offering the "only Known" T213-1 Molesworth. Here's the one I have. The one he is listing looks like a cropped SGC scan, presumably of the only one graded by SGC which is part of "Stumpy's" registry set.

[njdunkin1]

Merkle doesn't look impossible. I'm gonna go for it.

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by njdunkin1

Merkle doesn't look impossible. I'm gonna go for it.

Be happy the seller pulled these for likely being reported.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by JustinD

Not a good thing when the pristine white paper shows on the tears and creases the seller added after the paper was artificially aged...

NJ, that Merkle Hindu does exist; I own one. But that card was fake. Among other things, the tears in the card were made recently. The card was probably "aged" with the use of coffee or something similar to make it appear discolored. It was then bent and torn afterward, which is why the tear has such a bright white look. If it happened over time, the card would have the same discolored look where the tear happened.

By the way, I've seen multiple Merkle Hindus. The background color always appears more orange than red, probably due to some printing error. It seems to have affected many Hindu cards: they seem to come out with the same orange tint. We had a thread about them a couple years ago. If I find it, I'll PM you.

[njdunkin1]

Originally Posted by JustinD

Be happy the seller pulled these for likely being reported.

Originally Posted by Sean

NJ, that Merkle Hindu does exist; I own one. But that card was fake. Among other things, the tears in the card were made recently. The card was probably "aged" with the use of coffee or something similar to make it appear discolored. It was then bent and torn afterward, which is why the tear has such a bright white look. If it happened over time, the card would have the same discolored look where the tear happened.

By the way, I've seen multiple Merkle Hindus. The background color always appears more orange than red, probably due to some printing error. It seems to have affected many Hindu cards: they seem to come out with the same orange tint. We had a thread about them a couple years ago. If I find it, I'll PM you.

Thank you gentlemen. After taking a closer look, the tears do appear to be too intentional and look whiter than teeth. I appreciate the guidance - saved myself a couple ten bucks!

[RCMcKenzie]

I wonder what you would get in the mail if you bought this? An empty box I would guess.
www.ebay.com/itm/232047399979

[RCMcKenzie]

I obviously need glasses. Last night I thought I could see an sgc holder in the pics, but tonight it looks like a card on black construction paper. I don't think they made type 1 reprints on thin paper, so you would at least be able to tell if it were real in hand. It would be a nice find if real. I'm off to Eyemasters to get glasses tomorrow. Rob

[Leon]

Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie

I wonder what you would get in the mail if you bought this? An empty box I would guess.
www.ebay.com/itm/232047399979

Except for the granular looks of the scan, the Type 1 is hard to see that it isn't good?

[Jobu]

I think the T206s are bad and the T213 is good.

[ullmandds]

i bid on the t213 then saw this thread and retracted my bid...it does look fake.

[RCMcKenzie]

I'm going to ask the seller a question thru ebay and see what he says. His feed back is mostly buying from Kit Young cards etc..He has 3 sales..2 T205's which look a little washed out and an m104/5 that does not look good to me.
It's odd to me that he seems to have the Molesworth priced correctly without knowing exactly what he has...Rob

[Luke]

Keep in mind also that the Hindus were all picked by whoever created them to be very low pop or non-existent cards. They also knew to use players from the 150 series. Whoever made them knows t206s. Which makes it even worse, trying to scam a fellow back collector.

[RCMcKenzie]

Someone placed a bid right before I contacted the seller to politely ask him how he acquired the card. I have not heard back from the seller and do not expect to hear anything. I hope it turns out well for the buyer.

[RCMcKenzie]

Here is my question and the seller's reply---
Me-- "Hi, I'm interested in bidding on this card. Can you tell me a little about how you found it? Is it from a card show, dealer, estate sale, collector? Thanks, Robert"

Seller-- "Hello yes a collector living in the south, you will love this card only the Evers EX/MT looks stronger of all cards ever found ! Thanks Paul"

In the listing, the seller calls himself "Daniel". Too many red flags for me, but I'm gonna leave it up to y'all...Rob

[Brian Weisner]

Hey Luke,
It looks like you sold this seller a card or two in the past, so you probably still have all of his info. These fakes aren't very good for many of the reasons mentioned above, and a few others I won't list here, as the scammers read this board too. The Coupon looks the best of the bunch and could actually be a real photo of the card, but like RC, I could never trust a seller with this many fakes.
Be well Brian

[edjs]

So, okay, I bought it. What do you guys think, it seems good to me, looking with my loupe.

[sbfinley]

Unless those are re-backed, the pair I just looked at (Conroy and the Coupon) are good. If they aren't, we're in a whole heap of trouble.

[RCMcKenzie]

Ed, if it's on thin paper, it looks good to me. I'm glad someone from here got it...Rob

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by edjs

So, okay, I bought it. What do you guys think, it seems good to me, looking with my loupe.

I dont like the looks of the edges and the border line. As has been said itd be really really hard to replicate/falsify the stock of type 1's...so the stock could be the smoking gun.

[asoriano]

Originally Posted by sbfinley

Unless those are re-backed, the pair I just looked at (Conroy and the Coupon) are good. If they aren't, we're in a whole heap of trouble.

I'm with Steve. The Type 1 Coupon and Hindu's look fine to me.

-TE

[ullmandds]

ed...if its a real t213-1 when you hold it between your fingers the "card" will sag...it will not remain taught like a t206 or a t213 2 or 3. is this the case???

[edjs]

Thanks for the feedback, guys. It is the thin paper, same as my other type 1s. I don't post my name, so I won't give opinions about the purchase, but I will share the message traffic back and forth between me and the seller (names and address edited out):

Him
"Hi Ed , I was expecting far more for this card and several people asked asked an update about selling it off line . I will honor this sale but i don't wish to wait for weeks for the money WILL YOU SENT ME A MO since you know me and have bought other good cards from me ? I will offer you other great rare cards as well if you would do that more me , Thank"

Me
"I paid immediately via paypal. You should already have access to the funds."

Him
"Hello Ed Are you a Raw collector ? which sets besides the Coupons and T206's do you collect ? Red Cross , etc rare backs I am closing a major deal of these types ."

Me
"I collect many of the prewar types. I will be happy to watch your sales, I am on e-bay all the time. My friends collect as well, I would be happy to point them at your auctions as well. Has the Coupon Molesworth shipped yet?"

Him
"I explained that it takes 3 weeks to get paid with Paypal and my family is in serious crisis start here by answering in detail

Are you a Raw collector ? which sets besides the Coupons and T206's do you collect ? Red Cross , etc rare backs Thanks"



Me
"First, I am sorry if your family is having a hard time right now, I understand that it is hard when you need to take care of your family. I will tell you that your below message does not come across very well. First, when I pay by paypal, your funds are available to you right away. I am very experienced in how e-bay works. So it does not take 3 weeks to get the funds, unless there is something on your end, and that is out of my control. I am not going to send you a money order, you already have been paid, and those funds have already been deducted from my account. Further, sending you a money order leaves me unable to recoup anything if you fail to deliver. Next when you write that I have to "start here by answering in detail..." what type of collector I am, when all I have done is make a purchase and made immediate payment, and asked you when/if the item has shipped, it makes me nervous as to why you are asking me about my collecting. When you go and purchase something, does the sales person ask you what you plan to do with it? Wouldn't you think that was odd if they did? Finally, it will not help your family problems if you do not ship the card, I will go through e-bay and you will be down more money when they pull back my payment from you. If you list more items, I would be happy to continue bidding on them. That is how e-bay works, someone lists, someone buys, the purchaser pays, the seller ships. This is a simple transaction, nothing more than that. Please understand that I do not know you, there is nothing personal involved here. I bought something I was interested in, and so far, you have not delivered. That is all there is to it."


I never heard from him again. When the expected delivery date came and went, I opened a non-delivered item case, and it came a couple days later. I was seriously doubting it would arrive. I just wanted to share this and say thank you to everyone on the board that has shared their hard lessons learned, because it was on here that I learned not to ever send a money order to someone you don't know, or you have no recourse to prove you paid for the item. So thanks guys for always sharing those stories, and thanks Leon for giving us an outlet to share knowledge.

[ullmandds]

well thats certainly suspicious behavior?

[Northviewcats]

Well I bought the Merkle Hindu in question from the vendor a couple of weeks later. Received the card quickly. In hand it feels and looks fine to me.

Here are my scans.

[Leon]

looks good to me at least from the scan...

Originally Posted by Northviewcats

Well I bought the Merkle Hindu in question from the vendor a couple of weeks later. Received the card quickly. In hand it feels and looks fine to me.

Here are my scans.