Impossible autographs

[Bruinsfan94]

Hello! I don't know why but I was thinking, are there any players autographs out there, that there is just no way to prove they are real? I mean for reasons such as few examples or someone who signs wildly different all the time?

[Klrdds]

Your question is a bit open ended. Are you talking about current players or past players ? Are you talking about the average collector or dealer not knowing them ? Are you talking about signatures that those self-anointed gods at PSA or JSA can't identify or certify?
But yes there are dozens of players primarily from the early days in the 1800s to the early 1900s whose signatures have very few examples to compare to , I have owned and own dozens of signatures like that .

[quinnsryche]

I believe Addie Joss has only 1 known authentic example which would make provenance of any other practically impossible. Please correct me if I am wrong.

[Klrdds]

Addie Joss is one of those players . The one in Ron's book is from my collection. I acquired it in 1996 and there are posts of it on this site . This topic has been addressed many times previously in other threads.

[Bcwcardz]

Originally Posted by Klrdds

Your question is a bit open ended. Are you talking about current players or past players ? Are you talking about the average collector or dealer not knowing them ? Are you talking about signatures that those self-anointed gods at PSA or JSA can't identify or certify?
But yes there are dozens of players primarily from the early days in the 1800s to the early 1900s whose signatures have very few examples to compare to , I have owned and own dozens of signatures like that .

" self anointed gods ". I like that one. What do we know, right?

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[prewarsports]

I estimate that there are probably 500-1000 major league players going back to 1876 when the league was formed (but including the Union Association and American Association) that there are no known autographs of in the hobby, or examples anywhere but maybe some draft cards online. If you throw in Negro League players you are over 1000 for sure. Add in the early professional leagues from 1872-76 and you are closer to 1500. This is probably a LOW number but it gives an idea of many autographs out there have no known examples.

I think the best collection in the hobby has somewhere in the 13,000-14,000 different autographs and if I remember right there are about 18,000 major leaguers to have played from 1876-present. The vast majority of the ones that are missing are 19th century players.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by klrdds

are you talking about signatures that those self-anointed gods at psa or jsa can't identify or certify?

:d:d:d

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by Klrdds

Are you talking about signatures that those self-anointed gods at PSA or JSA can't identify or certify?

You got that right.

[Klrdds]

[QUOTE=prewarsports;1583722]I estimate that there are probably 500-1000 major league players going back to 1876 when the league was formed (but including the Union Association and American Association) that there are no known autographs of in the hobby, or examples anywhere but maybe some draft cards online. If you throw in Negro League players you are over 1000 for sure. Add in the early professional leagues from 1872-76 and you are closer to 1500. This is probably a LOW number but it gives an idea of many autographs out there have no known examples.

Thinking about the numbers you have come up with I believe you are close . I truly believe that the early 1900 -1920s Negro Leagues will have hundreds of players we have no record of let alone signature examples of just due to the teams moving and players jumping and lack of records being kept then let alone surviving to the present.
Maybe Jim Stinson would have some idea of those numbers.
Or maybe the all knowing gods of baseball autographs and authentication at PSA / JSA will enlighten us lowly ignorant collectors with some numbers.