Rant about PSA. Does anyone have a contact there?

[Bpm0014]

So a quick rant (and I never rant!). I have a hook up getting Michael Jordan's autograph. I had about 20ish, still have about 7 left, all on various mediums. One of the funnier mediums; I asked my uncle to get him to sign his rookie card, my uncle calls me later that day to come by and pick it up.....and Jordan signed the plastic case haha. But anyway.... All were signed in my presence other than maybe 2-3 that my uncle got for me and returned to me later that day. I recently sold a basketball and a really nice rookie era jersey for $1100, both signed in my presence. I've never had a problem with anything, every single autograph has passed.....except for the jersey. The person that I sold it to tells me it came back no good. It was signed in front of me!! If we can't trust PSA on something that was signed in front of me, how can we trust them with everything else? Sorry to rant, but super frustrated! It's not a question of me refunding the money (which I will happily do), but why do I have to cancel a sale for something that was signed in front of me, but does not pass based on some goofball who examines it for 30 seconds?

[bobbyw8469]

Happens all the time. It's their sandbox, we just play it in. We have had cards pulled straight from the pack come back trimmed. Autographs signed in our presence come back no good. The list goes on and on...

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

Happens all the time. It's their sandbox, we just play it in. We have had cards pulled straight from the pack come back trimmed. Autographs signed in our presence come back no good. The list goes on and on...

What's more disturbing to me is the opposite -- bad stuff authenticated or graded. Which also happens all the time. The sandbox giveth as well as taketh.

[RichardSimon]

And the hits just keep on coming,,,,,
There are so many people in the hobby whose autograph opinions I trust over PSA's, including a number of people on this board.
Anyone up for the Net54 authentication service?? ..
Brendan you asked for a contact,,, that will do no good since the person who turned down this jersey is in the authentication Twilight Zone and would never come forward to explain anything.

[Bpm0014]

It was signed in my presence; that's what irritates me. All I had was a black marker, so he signed 2 basketballs, a photo, and a jersey all in black marker. The numbers on the jersey are black, so he had to actually sign the mesh/jersey part (which is red). The autograph turned out great but I assume that it's a little tough signing "mesh", and the "M" is ever so slightly different. I wish there was an appeals process....

[Duluth Eskimo]

Originally Posted by Bpm0014

It was signed in my presence; that's what irritates me. All I had was a black marker, so he signed 2 basketballs, a photo, and a jersey all in black marker. The numbers on the jersey are black, so he had to actually sign the mesh/jersey part (which is red). The autograph turned out great but I assume that it's a little tough signing "mesh", and the "M" is ever so slightly different. I wish there was an appeals process....

There is an appeal process, wait a few months and pay them again.

[mcgwirecom]

If you submit something and it fails do they put "Fail" DNA on it so the next time it comes in they just look for the DNA and fail it again?

If you ever get a chance to get his signature again I would highly suggest taking a smartphone and video him signing. There's almost no way to argue with that if you can see him, where he is signing and the finished product.

I will throw this one thought in. Back in the day I was one of the few people who would authenticate McGwire signatures. There were a few occasions where I would get a signature that was just signed badly. Meaning maybe it was rushed, or bumped or something out of the "ordinary". I made a decision to not authenticate items like that. I returned the money and told the person I thought it was probably good but I'd rather not have to explain why something was good when it didn't match up with the "usual" type signature.

[HRBAKER]

Originally Posted by Duluth Eskimo

There is an appeal process, wait a few months and pay them again.

So true.

[Duluth Eskimo]

Not even worth trying. This happens all the time to a number of in person chasers. Everything I get is older autographs so it doesn't really apply, but like others have said, it's their sandbox.

For Jordan who is one of the most forged autos in the autograph business, if there is any deviation in the signature from an Upper Deck example or contract they're not going to risk getting roasted by collectors posting on a board like this one. They've heard every story imaginable and it doesn't matter no matter the autograph.

[Lordstan]

Brendan,
Unfortunately it happens all the time. While I am a vocal critic of a lot of their work, in all fairness, it can be hard to authenticate every single auto everyone signed. This is especially true since the art of penmanship has taken a tank. The reality is that most forgers will say the same thing that you are. How many people got things in person? How many times have we had my father got it stories? A good authenticator is not swayed by a simple I got it in person story.(BTW I am not implying in any way that you're story is false)
The simple fact is that authenticators only provide an opinion. Their opinion can definitely be wrong, but many take their word as fact and not opinion. If your buyer is one of those people, you really have no recourse.
Sucks, but it is the way the current market works. Only option is to either sell to someone who is not impressed with the alphabets or consign to an auction that will get it certed as part of the sale. They APPEAR to get preferential treatment, so perhaps it would work better that way.

Mark V

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by Lordstan

consign to an auction that will get it certed as part of the sale. They APPEAR to get preferential treatment, so perhaps it would work better that way.

Mark V

BINGO!!
And that is the shame of it, the AH's have the big accounts and they can exert undue influence.

[Bpm0014]

It's a shame. And I know that nothing is truly "black and white", but in the simplest of terms: If you can't authenticate something that was signed in front of me, you completely lose all credibility. Why should I trust anything else that you authenticate? The basketball which was signed 10 seconds before the jersey passes...and the jersey (which was signed 10 seconds after the basketball was) fails.

[packs]

I'm sure I'm in the minority but I'm actually glad that items sometimes get turned down even if they were signed in front of you. Jordan is one of the most forged autographs out there. If he signed it sloppy, I'd still want PSA to fail it rather than pass it. You can always submit again but I'd rather they be cautious when working with autographs like this one.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by Bpm0014

It's a shame. And I know that nothing is truly "black and white", but in the simplest of terms: If you can't authenticate something that was signed in front of me, you completely lose all credibility. Why should I trust anything else that you authenticate? The basketball which was signed 10 seconds before the jersey passes...and the jersey (which was signed 10 seconds after the basketball was) fails.

Why should they believe you when you write "I got it signed in person?"

They must read that dozens a times day from the submissions that are sent in.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by Bpm0014

It's a shame. And I know that nothing is truly "black and white", but in the simplest of terms: If you can't authenticate something that was signed in front of me, you completely lose all credibility. Why should I trust anything else that you authenticate? The basketball which was signed 10 seconds before the jersey passes...and the jersey (which was signed 10 seconds after the basketball was) fails.

Post a photo of it here.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by Bpm0014

If we can't trust PSA on something that was signed in front of me, how can we trust them with everything else??

A: You can't. Grading and authentication (in the sports memorabilia world) is a scam.