Popularitly of N172/N173 Old Judge vs T206

[GoCubsGo32]

Hello,

I'm on the photo side of the world of collecting and I was wondering are the Old Judge series more valuable than T206 cards? In addition, is there a more following of collectors of T206 cards (because of Wagner?) vs Old Judges cards?

[packs]

More of a following I'd say because the T206 set is a set that can be completed. No one will ever complete the OJ set.

[darwinbulldog]

Also the total population of T206s out there outnumbers the OJs on the order of 100:1, so individual examples are quite a bit cheaper (though not by as much as you'd guess from the ratio).

[oldjudge]

The old judge set is the first major baseball card set, the T206 set the second. The T206 set is more popular since the players are better known, and with enough money a front set is easy to complete. Excluding California League cards (many unique), the old judge set can be completed, if you define completed as one card of each member of the set. One set has been completed, one is one card away, and several others have made it to within ten cards or so. However, this is not easy, and in our current immediate gratification world, not something often tried.

[z28jd]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

The old judge set is the first major baseball card set, the T206 set the second. The T206 set is more popular since the players are better known, and with enough money a front set is easy to complete. Excluding California League cards (many unique), the old judge set can be completed, if you define completed as one card of each member of the set. One set has been completed, one is one card away, and several others have made it to within ten cards or so. However, this is not easy, and in our current immediate gratification world, not something often tried.

I would think money would stand in the way of many with the desire to complete the set. There is also the fact that many players never come up for sale. We can't all have a Taylor Shafer gifted to us by a careless collector who passes it up for a mere $350

[GoCubsGo32]

Is there a list of rare Old Judge cards N172/N173? I know of the rare cards in T206.

I figured T206 would be more popular but, I always thought Old Judge held a high value since they were older.

[oldjudge]

John--Did something like that really happen? Hard to believe that someone would be so penny foolish.

Old Judge rarities listed in the Old Judge book (The Photographic Baseball Cards of Goodwin & Company 1886-1890)

[z28jd]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

John--Did something like that really happen? Hard to believe that someone would be so penny foolish.

Old Judge rarities listed in the Old Judge book (The Photographic Baseball Cards of Goodwin & Company 1886-1890)

It's been so long now since I heard that Shafer story that I can't remember if it actually happened or it's just an old wives' tale

[oldjudge]

Yah, it has been a long time. The way I heard it, some poor guy named Devin, or Kelvin, or something like that, passed on the card. I think it has to be urban legend--no knowledgeable collector would do that.

[kkkkandp]

Originally Posted by z28jd

It's been so long now since I heard that Shafer story that I can't remember if it actually happened or it's just an old wives' tale

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Yah, it has been a long time. The way I heard it, some poor guy named Devin, or Kelvin, or something like that, passed on the card. I think it has to be urban legend--no knowledgeable collector would do that.

Please promise me that the two of you will come to my funeral and tell everyone there that story (one more time) so they will feel even more sorry for me.

BTW, Jay - you neglected to mention who was the the beneficiary of that decision (which was made by a guy who was on a very strict budget at the time and long before the Old Judge book documented the scarcities).

[oldjudge]

You got it--can you give me the date so I can put it into my calendar? I'd hate to have a haircut or something else important planned.

[Fred]

As far as the term "valuable" goes when comparing T206 cards to OJs: You can at least find a common T206 in about VG condidtion for a reasonable price relative to the price of a common OJ in VG condition.

As far as a greater "following" goes: I haven't seen many OJ threads last for a long time or have hefty numbers of posts however I do see many T206 threads with large number of posts, for example the ever popular "What's your monster number?" thread. I'd have to go with T206 being MUCH more popular and collected.

Here's a question - Which set has the most "fanatical" and/or "obsessed" collectors?

Somehow I think N172 collectors can possibly be the top of the list for being the most fanatically obsessed collectors. What do you think John?

Will we ever learn who the person was that let the Taylor Shafer get past him for a mere $350. Perhaps it was the fact that Shafer only played for one season (batted a robust .172) in the AA while the OJs were being distributed and the player just didn't seem appealing. Maybe it was because the collector was busy working a deal for a hard to get player (not a HOFer at the time) from some Sasquatch in the great northwest....

[kkkkandp]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

You got it--can you give me the date so I can put it into my calendar? I'd hate to have a haircut or something else important planned.

Check with my wife. She'll probably have something to do with it.

[Joe_G.]

Originally Posted by GoCubsGo32

Hello,

I'm on the photo side of the world of collecting and I was wondering are the Old Judge series more valuable than T206 cards? In addition, is there a more following of collectors of T206 cards (because of Wagner?) vs Old Judges cards?

Hello Gary,

The usual suspects have chimed in. The OJ faithful on this board pale in comparison (in numbers) to the T206 crowd but we are as hard core as they come. Many T206 collectors come and go, but most N172 collectors are lifers

I do believe that OJs would be more widely collected and coveted if they were more readily available and commonly found with good image qualities. Some collectors prefer the old sepia photos, others prefer colorful artistic renditions. The sets do have many similarities . . . similar number of subjects, cover major & minor leagues, obscure to HOF, etc. Total number of OJ poses and T206 front/back combos are extremely high. Both sets cover an interesting but different time period. Both can be collected on a budget or with deep pockets, it all comes down to how you scope your interests.

[GoCubsGo32]

Thanks everyone for the help! It's nice to see this side of the board!

I just saw lot of threads dealing with T206 and not many.."OJ" threads so, I was very curious why that was...

Both sets seem pretty cool! I think I'm leaning on T206 portraits for right now to start to collect.

[RCMcKenzie]

Both sets are popular and widely recognized by collectors. You can collect both series by just buying what you like, or at least, that's what I do. Here are some...

[glchen]

I'd like to see this Taylor Shafer card everyone keeps talking about ...

[kkkkandp]

Originally Posted by glchen

I'd like to see this Taylor Shafer card everyone keeps talking about ...

You're killing me, Gary!

[sandmountainslim]

I am a small time collector and I have 48 T206 cards and only 1 OJ card and the reason for that is SOLELY price.
I like both sets equally well and find one as fascinating as the next. It's all about money with some of us when it comes to what to collect.

[jcmtiger]

I have the complete team sets of Detroit T206 and 1887 Detroit N172 Wolverines. When it comes time to sell the T206 will go 1st.

Joe

[z28jd]

Originally Posted by glchen

I'd like to see this Taylor Shafer card everyone keeps talking about ...

+1

[pokerplyr80]

Not to keep pouring it on, but ouf of curiosity I tried to look this shafer card up on VCP but see no recorded sales. I may have passed on it for $350 as well, not that I would have been likely to find it in the first place. What is the value of this card?

[oldjudge]

Gary--it should be in the Old Judge book.

As I think about it, that event happened at least ten years ago and I don't recall another Taylor Shafer card coming to market since.

[z28jd]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Gary--it should be in the Old Judge book.

As I think about it, that event happened at least ten years ago and I don't recall another Taylor Shafer card coming to market since.

I have not seen one since and it probably was around 2003. In fact, it's the only one I can recall ever seeing for sale, though I didn't see it for sale, only heard about through a fellow collector at the same show. He is quite the elusive character!

[oldjudge]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

Not to keep pouring it on, but ouf of curiosity I tried to look this shafer card up on VCP but see no recorded sales. I may have passed on it for $350 as well, not that I would have been likely to find it in the first place. What is the value of this card?

Tough to say. How does one value the Mona Lisa smile?

[kkkkandp]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Gary--it should be in the Old Judge book.

As I think about it, that event happened at least ten years ago and I don't recall another Taylor Shafer card coming to market since.

Jay's memory is pretty good...for an old guy.

Below is a picture my "friend" John sent me in December of 2005 to commemorate the occasion of my missing out on the purchase.

John - you'd better pray every night that I don't come across that Madden/rock card before you do.

[Fred]

Originally Posted by kkkkandp

John - you'd better pray every night that I don't come across that Madden/rock card before you do.

+1

[glchen]

Originally Posted by kkkkandp

Jay's memory is pretty good...for an old guy.

Below is a picture my "friend" John sent me in December of 2005 to commemorate the occasion of my missing out on the purchase.

John - you'd better pray every night that I don't come across that Madden/rock card before you do.

Thanks, Kevin, for being a good sport. Nice to put a name to a picture.

[Joshchisox08]

Originally Posted by glchen

I'd like to see this Taylor Shafer card everyone keeps talking about ...

I'll have to plead ignorance. No clue who or what the Taylor Shafer story is all about or why it is a rare OJ card. I'm not familiar with OJ at all. My only desire is to acquire a Dick Buckley one day. Only because we share the last name and I think OJs in general are kind of cool. Just too expensive for me.

Always good to get the OJ guys out of the closet and spread their knowledge though !!! Good thread.

[Yoda]

When was the last time an Anson in uniform was offered up in the marketplace? Anybody remember? I know Lou Lipset had one in one of his auctions about 20 years ago. Is it a known fact that this special card was an integration of Anson's head, of course, with somebody else's body? Interesting story if true.

[oldjudge]

The last Anson in Uniform was the one you refer to in Lew's auction. The only other one that I know of in auction was the Copeland copy. And yes, the card image is a composite as explained in the Old Judge book (TOJB). Only four copies of the card are known, one in the Burdick collection, and three in private collections.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

The last Anson in Uniform was the one you refer to in Lew's auction. The only other one that I know of in auction was the Copeland copy. And yes, the card image is a composite as explained in the Old Judge book (TOJB). Only four copies of the card are known, one in the Burdick collection, and three in private collections.

PSA thinks that 5 Anson in uniform OJ's exist.

http://www.psacard.com/Articles/Arti...03-winning-bid

[oldjudge]

Not as far as I know. In fact, I am not aware of any copy currently residing in a PSA holder. The Burdick copy is not graded, and I know for a fact that two of the cards in private collections are currently SGC graded. I'm not sure if the last card is graded--it is the one that came out of Lew's auction. My guess is that the cards in their pop report are misidentified.

[Fred]

Jay,

Do you happen to know the year the card was sold and the final hammer on it?

[oldjudge]

Dan--I just looked at the PSA pop report and I don't see any Anson in Uniform listed.

[oldjudge]

Fred--I don't know the year, but I think the hammer price was about $65,000. Great buy!

[JeremyW]

Fred- All the information is in the link that Dan provided a couple posts above yours.

[oldjudge]

The only question is if there is a copy in Wharton-Tigre's collection at the British Museum. I don't know the answer to this. However, the key point is that there are only three copies known outside of museums, and these are all in advanced collections.

[BleedinBlue]

Google came up with this image of an Anson in uniform in a psa holder

[oldjudge]

That, I believe, is the Copeland copy which was subsequently reholdered by SGC