Throwing in the towel

[71buc]

Have any of you been searching for an elusive piece of memorabilia that you have heard exists but have never actually seen even in photos? I have one such item on my want list. After years of searching I am beginning to question its existence. I’m hoping that its real but without at least photographic evidence I am ready to throw in the towel.

I own a large chalk ware bank that is a bust of Willie Stargell. It is pictured below. It bears the name of sculptor Ivo Zini. The Gettysburg Tour Center website states, “Behind each masterpiece in the Hall of Presidents and First Ladies are the artists that create them. Ivo Zini is the designer and sculptor behind the heads of Lincoln, Kennedy, Eisenhower, and Nixon (among others). Ivo is well known for helping the disabled through prosthesis, designing for the Sports Hall of Fame Museum & the Theater at Three Rivers Stadium, and being on display at the 1964 World Fair and the Presidential Wax Museum in Florida”. Mr. Zini died in 2008.

Although I wouldn’t consider these banks to be rare they are scarce. They are normally found with chips or cracks to the bill of the cap where they had tipped over at some point in time. Due to this they are most often found with amateur attempts at repair. They were created without a plug to remove the money. The only way the money could be removed was to break the bank. I believe these two factors account for its scarcity. Decent versions of the Stargell can be had for between $250.00 - $400.00.

For years I have been told by various collectors that a Roberto Clemente version of this bank exists. Despite years of searching I have yet to view even a photo of one. In 1988 Zini created and released a bronze colored 12"x13" plaster Roberto Clemente bust they are numbered /1000. There is also a poorly rendered color version rumored to be limited to a production run of 40. Although they are stylistically similar they were obviously created much later and are not banks.

Last night I found these images of Willie Stargell in the Carnegie Museum Teenie Harris collection. They are dated after Clemente's death January 1973. The description of the photo is as follows: Evelyn Hill and Pittsburgh Pirates baseball player Willie Stargell, standing over table with ceramic portrait banks of Stargell, in Hillday Statuary Company. Ironically my wife reminded me that I have a 1963 photo of my deceased mother holding me in a similar pose while wearing the exact same coat worn by Ms. Hill. Thanks Mom for the hobby assist from heaven Nonetheless, I have to believe that if a Clemente version exists photos of it would also have been taken by Teenie Harris. These photos have served to convince me that the Clemente banks are essentially a hobby urban myth. I hope I’m mistaken if you have photographic evidence of one please share it with me. Does anyone have a similar story of their search for an elusive item?

[canjond]

Any chance people have mistaken the Stargell for Clemente?

[71buc]

Originally Posted by canjond

Any chance people have mistaken the Stargell for Clemente?

Stargell's name is on the reverse of his jersey but I suppose that could have been a logical mistake.

[hcv123]

Hi Mike,

The Clemente bank is for real. I own one (finding it to get you a photo may be a little more challenging). I actually have owned all 3 versions (I know I still have the one from 1973, not sure about the others). Years ago I had another that I sold. They are very scarce. Back when there was more material available - I had seen them 3 or 4 times. Back then sold upwards of $1000. I have not seen one offered in many years now. It definitely exists. When I have time I will try to find it and post pictures. There are a couple of other ceramic Clemente pieces that are even more scarce - photos when I come across them. I believe I have seen a 3rd player (I forget who) also.

The item I have never seen even a photo of - 1960 Complete Bazooka box featuring Clemente. All the best.

-Howard

[71buc]

Originally Posted by hcv123

Hi Mike,

The Clemente bank is for real. I own one (finding it to get you a photo may be a little more challenging). I actually have owned all 3 versions (I know I still have the one from 1973, not sure about the others). Years ago I had another that I sold. They are very scarce. Back when there was more material available - I had seen them 3 or 4 times. Back then sold upwards of $1000. I have not seen one offered in many years now. It definitely exists. When I have time I will try to find it and post pictures. There are a couple of other ceramic Clemente pieces that are even more scarce - photos when I come across them. I believe I have seen a 3rd player (I forget who) also.

The item I have never seen even a photo of - 1960 Complete Bazooka box featuring Clemente. All the best.

-Howard

Howard, thanks for the info I can't wait to finally see an example of one. I would love to see the other ceramic Clemente pieces as well!

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by 71buc

Howard, thanks for the info I can't wait to finally see an example of one. I would love to see the other ceramic Clemente pieces as well!

I want to see it as well!

You may have too much stuff when you can't find something in order to take a photo.

[hcv123]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

I want to see it as well!

You may have too much stuff when you can't find something in order to take a photo.

I have been whittling down for years and still have difficulty. If I would have kept going I could have made an episode of hoarders - except very little true "junk". Mostly assorted collectibles I have amassed.

[hcv123]

I had 2 of the ceramics I have, including the one in question close at hand. I have 2 or 3 others, not sure where they are. Enjoy the pics as promised.

[71buc]

Originally Posted by hcv123

I had 2 of the ceramics I have, including the one in question close at hand. I have 2 or 3 others, not sure where they are. Enjoy the pics as promised.

Holy Sh!t it exists! That is freaking awesome. Thanks so much for sharing it with me. I'm relieved to learn it is not a myth but frightened to think what one might cost me when and if I ever stumble across one.

[JollyElm]

That is a real cool development!!! Awesome!!!

[Mark70Z]

Howard,

Thanks so much for taking the time to find the pieces and also posting a picture of them. Even though I'm not a Clemente collector, I'm a fan. It's very cool to see items that I've never seen before.

I've also never seen a '60 Clemente complete Bazooka box. Hopefully you'll find one one day.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by Mark70Z

Howard,

Thanks so much for taking the time to find the pieces and also posting a picture of them. Even though I'm not a Clemente collector, I'm a fan. It's very cool to see items that I've never seen before.

I've also never seen a '60 Clemente complete Bazooka box. Hopefully you'll find one one day.

ditto.

and good luck, Mike

[sporteq]

Awesome thread! Glad to see someone get peace of mind.

Albert

[pbspelly]

I love it when the board can solve a question like that. Net54 came through for me in a similar fashion when I was trying to find out if there was actually a Foto Fun of Billy Sullivan, Jr., here http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=142322

I'm still searching for proof of a Pinkerton cabinet (T5) and a W600 Sporting Life cabinet of Billy Sullivan, Sr., and suspect that the Sporting Life, at least, does not exist.

Now if I just could get Spec to sell me that Foto Fun of my grandfather ...

[71buc]

Originally Posted by hcv123

I had 2 of the ceramics I have, including the one in question close at hand. I have 2 or 3 others, not sure where they are. Enjoy the pics as promised.

Howard, thanks for sharing the photos of your Clemente bank. If you hadn't I likely would have given up the search. Since your post I have come across two others. In comparison in the past three months there have been almost 300 Clemente rookie cards listed/sold on eBay.The first bank I found in May sold before I was aware it was available. The second one I added to my collection this past weekend. I am thrilled, thanks for inspiring me to keep hunting. Memorabilia like this is so much more fun than cards.

Awesome Mike! Congratulations. It could not be in better hands.

[GoCubsGo32]

CONGRATS MIKE! This is awesome to hear! It's in a great collection now!

Cheers!

[JMEnglish27]

Congrats - that's fantastic!

[ooo-ribay]

Fantastic, Mike! It gives me hope for some of my Holy Grails. The card guys would disagree but I totally agree with this stuff being better than cards. For the most part, you can have just about any card if you are willing to pay.

[WillowGrove]

This has been fun to follow Mike. Congratulations!

[71buc]

Thanks everybody and Ty I owe You lunch

[Scott Garner]

Outstanding Mike! Way to knock a holy grail item off the list.
Hopefully it was worth the wait!

[Leon]

I don't know about the "cards" bashing but what a great thread and outcome. Thanks to everyone who shared and posted...

Originally Posted by 71buc

Thanks everybody and Ty I owe You lunch

Mike, Pretty sure I owe you lunch Can't wait for the WSSCA show this November 7 & 8, let's try to grab a burger and beer about then. Hope all is well, and great pick-up!

[Jay Wolt]

Mike nice grab, Congrats!

[Mark70Z]

That is such a great pickup! So glad to hear that you were not only able to find one, but you were able to add it to your growing collection... Congrats!

[Rickyy]

Wheeeee! I love that bank! Congrats!

Ricky Y

[ILTBOC2]

Thanks to all for this thread! I have heard of these banks but had never seen a picture of them. What great information this thread contained! As I was scrolling through, I found the suspense building as I wasn't sure if pictures would really be posted, then they were there! A better thrill than most movies or books out there!