Bill Mastro -- What He Really Thinks of His Hobby Friends

[calvindog]

In 2008, Mastro was taped saying the following to a Confidential Witness about the cards he was selling:

Mastro: I really don’t give a shit if the stuff’s real or not. Okay. I don’t care if its trimmed. I don’t care if it’s real. I, if I look at it and I think it’s real, I want the authenticators to look at it and think it’s real. You think that all these PSA cards we're auctioning are, aren’t unaltered? They’re all altered. The alternation going on, it is unbelievable in our hobby right now. Okay. There’s not a sheet that gets auctioned off that isn’t cut up. Every sheets getting cut up. Goudy sheets, Diamond Star sheets, basketball sheets, every sheet you see in the auction is being bought by someone who is cutting them up.

He's being sentenced in a week and his attorneys are asking for a probationary sentence. Marshall Fogel and James Spence wrote love letters to the Court about what a swell guy he is.

[DeanH3]

Jeff, I appreciate you keeping this issue at the forefront. Although I've never bid in any of Mastro's auctions, I realize it still impacts me in some way or another. I believe many collectors, like myself, would be left in the dark without the exposure you continually bring. Thanks and kudos for your efforts.

[Rob D.]

Prediction: Jeff's post will spark responses of outrage and condemnation -- and, of course, the tiresome devil's advocate position.

Sadly, what it won't produce is one extra letter written to the judge.

R0b D3w0lf

[HRBAKER]

Yeah, but I never paid more than I was willing to pay, cough, cough.

[Peter_Spaeth]

According to Lew Lipset's 2013 letter, Mastro's "tendency to trim cards was well-known in the hobby" back in the day. Lew also quotes Mastro as saying "I will do anything to improve the appearance of any item or card." Docket Entry 114 for those keeping score. So the attitude expressed in this transcription is unfortunately not surprising.

I would like to know who is buying and trimming these sheets. Did Mastro speak to that? Can you tell us? I would think it's pretty tough to reproduce a factory cut, but maybe not?

[wonkaticket]

Between helping out at the church, sponsoring alcoholics, volunteering at the soup kitchen etc. how did Bill find the time to take advantage of his customers?

[brewing]

Thank you Jeff, Peter, and others that expose the fraudsters in our hobby.

[Rob D.]

Originally Posted by brewing

Thank you Jeff, Peter, and others that expose the fraudsters in our hobby.

+1. Thanks for all you do, Peter.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Rob I am SO glad you were reinstated.

[WhenItWasAHobby]

Originally Posted by calvindog

In 2008, Mastro was taped saying the following to a Confidential Witness about the cards he was selling:

Mastro: I really don’t give a shit if the stuff’s real or not. Okay. I don’t care if its trimmed. I don’t care if it’s real. I, if I look at it and I think it’s real, I want the authenticators to look at it and think it’s real. You think that all these PSA cards we're auctioning are, aren’t unaltered? They’re all altered. The alternation going on, it is unbelievable in our hobby right now. Okay. There’s not a sheet that gets auctioned off that isn’t cut up. Every sheets getting cut up. Goudy sheets, Diamond Star sheets, basketball sheets, every sheet you see in the auction is being bought by someone who is cutting them up.

He's being sentenced in a week and his attorneys are asking for a probationary sentence. Marshall Fogel and James Spence wrote love letters to the Court about what a swell guy he is.

Thanks for posting this Jeff.

I recall around 2005 or even earlier, someone posted a message on the CU Board where this collector claimed that he approached Bill Mastro to auction off his vintage raw card collection. According to this collector, Mastro told him that the cards would sell for a lot more if they were PSA graded. The collector said that he would send the cards to PSA himself. According to this collector, Mastro strongly urged him not to, but to let Mastro keep the cards and he'd guarantee that he could get a lot higher grades if he submitted them. Mastro supposedly admitted that he would alter the cards in some form to make the grades significantly higher. This collector was shocked and thought PSA should know about this. In typical PSA fashion, PSA deleted the thread.

Now reading that Mastro admitted in 2008 that he could easily get altered cards graded by PSA is totally inexcusable for PSA. They need to buy back all of Mastro's submissions. Shame on them.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by WhenItWasAHobby

Thanks for posting this Jeff.

I recall around 2005 or even earlier, someone posted a message on the CU Board where this collector claimed that he approached Bill Mastro to auction off his vintage raw card collection. According to this collector, Mastro told him that the cards would sell for a lot more if they were PSA graded. The collector said that he would send the cards to PSA himself. According to this collector, Mastro strongly urged him not to, but to let Mastro keep the cards and he'd guarantee that he could get a lot higher grades if he submitted them. Mastro supposedly admitted that he would alter the cards in some form to make the grades significantly higher. This collector was shocked and thought PSA should know about this. In typical PSA fashion, PSA deleted the thread.

Now reading that Mastro admitted in 2008 that he could easily get altered cards graded by PSA is totally inexcusable for PSA. They need to buy back all of Mastro's submissions. Shame on them.

Need a little more proof that a criminal saying he can do that...for all we know he just said that to get peoples business to submit cards to his auction..

how many people say 'I got the hook up' when in actuality if you take them up on it (for something legal) it doesn't go through....like the food isn't for free at the restaurant because of his friend being the manager type of thing..

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

Need a little more proof that a criminal saying he can do that...for all we know he just said that to get peoples business to submit cards to his auction..



how many people say 'I go the hook up' when in actuality if you take them up on it (for something legal) it doesn't go through....like the food isn't for free at the restaurant because of his friend being the manager type of thing..

What does "I go the hook up" mean?

[Leon]

Originally Posted by 4815162342

What does "I go the hook up" mean?

Unassociated streams of thought being regurgetated on a public chat board.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Leon

Unassociated streams of thought being regurgetated on a public chat board.

Imagine Barry Bonds or Wilt Chamberlain with a gun.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Leon

Unassociated streams of thought being regurgetated on a public chat board.

My favorite sentence of the week.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by 4815162342

What does "I go the hook up" mean?

I 'got' the hook up... Mastro saying he has a hook up to better grades with PSA....how do we know its just him saying that...how do we know if thats true....the person saying it is going to be a convicted felon

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

I 'got' the hook up... Mastro saying he has a hook up to better grades with PSA....how do we know its just him saying that...how do we know if thats true....the person saying it is going to be a convicted felon

It's time to buy a new keyboard.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Mastro: I really don’t give a shit if the stuff’s real or not. Okay. I don’t care if its trimmed. I don’t care if it’s real.

Sorry, Peter. These are actually my favorite sentences.

[iowadoc77]

I want to personally thank the "veterans" of this board for the amount of knowledge I have gained in the past couple of years on here. I would know nothing about many of the subjects discussed here and i would walk into a card show or look at eBay or an AH with naive eyes and believe what I saw. I now look at things with a much more critical eye and have especially learned the "don't buy the holder, buy the card" adage. As far as Mastro is concerned, he represents everything that is wrong with this hobby. It is unfortunate that it went as far as it did. I hope he is sentenced properly although I am no expert on that. I think part of his punishment should be sorting through 5000 count boxes of 1988-1992 topps and having to sort them into teams, minimum of five boxes a day, for a year. I continue to see it as a phenomenal HOBBY. My wife just sees it as an EXPENSIVE hobby. So, I know this is a sidebar from the thread, but a well-intended one I hope. Thanks again for the knowledge. I look forward to learning much more.
Eric

[Peter_Spaeth]

Eric the Constitution forbids cruel and unusual punishment.

[iowadoc77]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Eric the Constitution forbids cruel and unusual punishment.

Peter, I love it, but can you even imagine the agony of doing the sorting? Either that or writing "I will not alter baseball cards" with chalk on a chalkboard 10,000 times per day for a year? Seems fair to me...

[ls7plus]

Originally Posted by iowadoc77

I want to personally thank the "veterans" of this board for the amount of knowledge I have gained in the past couple of years on here. I would know nothing about many of the subjects discussed here and i would walk into a card show or look at eBay or an AH with naive eyes and believe what I saw. I now look at things with a much more critical eye and have especially learned the "don't buy the holder, buy the card" adage. As far as Mastro is concerned, he represents everything that is wrong with this hobby. It is unfortunate that it went as far as it did. I hope he is sentenced properly although I am no expert on that. I think part of his punishment should be sorting through 5000 count boxes of 1988-1992 topps and having to sort them into teams, minimum of five boxes a day, for a year. I continue to see it as a phenomenal HOBBY. My wife just sees it as an EXPENSIVE hobby. So, I know this is a sidebar from the thread, but a well-intended one I hope. Thanks again for the knowledge. I look forward to learning much more.
Eric

Love it, Eric--makes me crack up at the visual image it creates each and every time I read that post!

Best wishes,

Larry

[conor912]

Originally Posted by iowadoc77

I think part of his punishment should be sorting through 5000 count boxes of 1988-1992 topps and having to sort them into teams

effing brilliant

[WhenItWasAHobby]

Originally Posted by calvindog

In 2008, Mastro was taped saying the following to a Confidential Witness about the cards he was selling:

Mastro: I really don’t give a shit if the stuff’s real or not. Okay. I don’t care if its trimmed. I don’t care if it’s real. I, if I look at it and I think it’s real, I want the authenticators to look at it and think it’s real. You think that all these PSA cards we're auctioning are, aren’t unaltered? They’re all altered. The alternation going on, it is unbelievable in our hobby right now. Okay. There’s not a sheet that gets auctioned off that isn’t cut up. Every sheets getting cut up. Goudy sheets, Diamond Star sheets, basketball sheets, every sheet you see in the auction is being bought by someone who is cutting them up.

He's being sentenced in a week and his attorneys are asking for a probationary sentence. Marshall Fogel and James Spence wrote love letters to the Court about what a swell guy he is.

Going back to the opening post. Is this quote a matter of record in the Court where Mastro is being sentenced?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by WhenItWasAHobby

Going back to the opening post. Is this quote a matter of record in the Court where Mastro is being sentenced?

Yes it is from the government's sentencing memo.

[Runscott]

please forgive the interruption.

[WhenItWasAHobby]

One lingering thought. There were actually a lot of people who profited from Mastro's fraud - in particular the people whose consignments to Mastro were shilled by Mastro. I wonder how many of these "profiteers" were the people who gave Mastro glowing endorsements to have his sentenced reduced?

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by WhenItWasAHobby

One lingering thought. There were actually a lot of people who profited from Mastro's fraud - in particular the people whose consignments to Mastro were shilled by Mastro. I wonder how many of these "profiteers" were the people who gave Mastro glowing endorsements to have his sentenced reduced?

Most collectors didn't want to be outed as being supporters of Mastro for a number of reasons: a) he's a thief and most in the hobby do not want to be associated with a thief in the hobby; or b) writing such a positive letter might cause others to believe they conspired with Mastro to shill their own consignments. (Similarly, many Mastro co-conspirators have been careful to never mention a negative word about Mastro et al. on any of these threads for fear of being outed; others had any number of laughable reasons why they wouldn't write a negative letter to the Court about Mastro)

At least one Mastro "supporter" wrote a letter to the court and tried to keep it sealed so that presumably no one would see what he had written (which included a ludicrous explanation that Mastro's fraud did not impact future sales prices of cards he shilled, as well as denigrating me for daring to publicly hound Mastro and Allen for their crimes). When told that his letter would not be permitted to remain sealed he withdrew it instead. Luckily I got to see the letter before it was withdrawn.