LOTG Contest

[MVSNYC]

https://lotgauctions.wordpress.com/2...me-the-player/

Just noticed that Al updated his blog...thought this was a cool contest...I'm stumped, so I figured I'd post it here on Net54.

Good Luck!

[ethicsprof]

stumped here as well.
200 bucks is a great prize.
i'll try a bit more.

best,
barry

[Leon]

Good luck with contest Al...What a great looking postcard too!!

[Howe’s Hunter]

Just thinking, he isn't a major leaguer.....

[Theo_450]

I made a guess. Al, can we guess again?

[Al C.risafulli]

Hi everybody!

Quick update on this: this contest is still open. We've gotten some great theories, some nice guesses, and also some stuff that's WAY out there, but I'm not confident enough in any of the responses at this stage.

I did post some new research on the LOTG blog here: https://lotgauctions.wordpress.com/2...ontest-update/

The contest is still open. I'm hoping someone comes in with a slam-dunk, because I'm tearing my hair out over it!

-Al

[Runscott]

I believe it says 'Alpem', not 'Alpern', and it's a Jewish player.

[nolemmings]

If he showed up for spring training and became uphappy with negotiations while there he could have had put in a solid 8 days (if clubs started at similar dates) before calling it quits to force the owner's hand.

Doubtful. According to the book "Honus Wagner: The Life of Baseball's Flying Dutchman", Wagner looked happy standing at the train station to wave off his teammates on their way to Spring Training in 1908. In April, he played in one exhibition game in Clarke's hometown in Indiana, sparking hope he would return, to which he responded that he had promised Clarke "during the winter" that he would play in the game and he merely kept his promise. No mention of having been in Ark. a week or so before leaving.

[MVSNYC]

My guess.

[bmarlowe1]

Originally Posted by MVSNYC

My guess.

This T206 card actually depicts Howie Camnitz. The unknown guy is not Camnitz.

[Jobu]

Thanks for posting that Todd, I knew someone here would have access to better info than what I found. If Wagner definitely wasn't at spring training in 1908 then I am 100% on board with this having been 1909 as even 1910 seems like too big of a stretch given Wagner's jersey.

Originally Posted by nolemmings

Doubtful. According to the book "Honus Wagner: The Life of Baseball's Flying Dutchman", Wagner looked happy standing at the train station to wave off his teammates on their way to Spring Training in 1908. In April, he played in one exhibition game in Clarke's hometown in Indiana, sparking hope he would return, to which he responded that he had promised Clarke "during the winter" that he would play in the game and he merely kept his promise. No mention of having been in Ark. a week or so before leaving.

[Al C.risafulli]

Hi all:

For what it's worth, I also subscribe to the 1909 theory, for the same reason: Wagner wasn't at Spring Training in 1908. He's likely just wearing an old uniform (it is, after all, Spring Training).

Also for what it's worth, I'm also researching this, trying to find the answer. If I figure it out before you guys do, I'm telling everyone!

-Al

[x2drich2000]

Originally Posted by Jobu

Thanks for posting that Todd, I knew someone here would have access to better info than what I found. If Wagner definitely wasn't at spring training in 1908 then I am 100% on board with this having been 1909 as even 1910 seems like too big of a stretch given Wagner's jersey.

I don't think 1910 or 1911 are out of the question, see team picture here I found online from spring 1911 and note the players behinds Wagner appear to have the same 1908/09 jersey (logo on sleeve) as the mystery player while most of the rest have I believe a 1910 jersey (blue button up/collar & no P on front). Also look closely and it does not appear that Wagner has the blue button up/collar, under his sweater suggesting his jersey is older (perhaps 1907? as the collar is grey, not blue)

DJ

[Howe’s Hunter]

Originally Posted by Runscott

I believe it says 'Alpem', not 'Alpern', and it's a Jewish player.

Last week, typing in Alpem in Google, it came up with a scanned article from a Salt Lake City newspaper dating to 1911 that mentioned a "Alpems staff of lefties" but like many of the old newpapers that have been scanned, it ran across a whole page, so what might have been the first five words in an article in column five was followed by the first five words in column six. When I went to view the actual scan of the page, it said I had to join the site for $60 a year full access, and I wasn't quite ready to do that. Now today, I can't find that article.

[nolemmings]

DJ looks to be on fire. Seems that Honus was not at Hot Springs in 1909 either, so the photo is from 1910 or later.

BTW, thanks to a kind board member (angelpece) for digging up a tidbit that keeps me in the running with my guess of magistrate Louis Alpern. Here is a blurb from the Pittsburgh Gazette on March 11, 1911, under the heading HANS WAGNER TO LEAVE TODAY FOR HOT SPRINGS--note the last line:


So if the photo is from 1911, or if Alpern made a trip with the team to Hot Springs in 1910, he may be the guy--although it will likely be tough to come up with a photo of him from that time for comparison.

[Al C.risafulli]

Todd, I bet you've got it.

-Al

[sb1]

Here is an image of his son Philip, similar nose, and facial features.

http://ak-cache.legacy.net/legacy/im...000000253e563c

[h2oya311]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

DJ looks to be on fire. Seems that Honus was not at Hot Springs in 1909 either, so the photo is from 1910 or later.

BTW, thanks to a kind board member (angelpece) for digging up a tidbit that keeps me in the running with my guess of magistrate Louis Alpern.

Board member (angelpece) helped me with some research I was doing on Whitey Ford back in December. He's turning out to be quite the detective for our modest board. Well done!

[Al C.risafulli]

Hi everyone!

Thought I'd take a moment to introduce you all to Louis Alpern, Pittsburgh alderman and police magistrate.



Alpern was part of a group of nine people that included Tommy Leach and Barney Dreyfus, who headed down to Hot Springs, Arkansas in March of 1911 to join the Pirates at Spring Training.

An article in the March 14, 1911 issue of the Pittsburgh Gazette not only makes reference to Alpern's being at Spring Training, but in a single paragraph, refers to A) how Alpern got a Pirates uniform, B) the 14-pound medicine ball in the background of the photo, and C) the players having fun at the non-players' expense!

You can read the whole story here.

Needless to say, I'm thrilled to extend a $200 auction credit to Todd, who's "wild theory" turned out to be completely accurate! Todd's research also puts a date on the cabinet photo that is Lot #3 in the current auction, which we had dated to 1910, but is actually 1911.

Congrats, Todd!

Catalogs mailed to active bidders yesterday, and anyone who tried digging into this puzzle is sure to love the cover!

-Al

[Runscott]

????

[Runscott]

Yep, we expect a photo by Wednesday.

[iwantitiwinit]

Here ya go, it's sketchy but it's a picture.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?ni...g=3709,8208245

aka Squire Alpern

[BaseballYakker]

This is quite interesting. I've done extensive research on Whittington Park in Hot Springs and I can guarantee that this photo is at least 1911 or later based on the location of the grandstand. I would say 1911 is the most likely date, and the player indeed is in a Pittsburgh uniform.

[MVSNYC]

LOTG auction is live today, some killer stuff.

Good luck, Al!

[Jobu]

Did anyone ever find a photo of the squire from the right time period?

[nolemmings]

Not quite yet, but here is some more info. LOTG lot 3 is a photo that appeared in the 3/26/1911 edition of the Pittsburgh Gazette, and also appears to show the same sweater that Clarke was wearing in our mystery photo, perhaps lending further support for a 1911 Spring Training date in the latter.


Edited to add that the newspaper photo was not just published but also was taken in March, 2011, as seen in the same 3/26 Gazette: