Opinions wanted on card authenticity...

[bobbyw8469]

Please forgive me if this is in the wrong place. There is some discussion going on across the street on whether a card is authentic or not. Before I weigh in on what my opinion of the card is, I wanted to get some expert opinion over here. Thank you for your time!

[whitehse]

Isnt there a few companies that specialize in this type of thing? Perhaps you might want to try them first.

[bobbyw8469]

Trying to settle a debate...I am well seasoned with sending cards to grading companies.

[bobbyw8469]

Here is another pic....I am thinking someone used the rejection flip and put a fake card with it.

[quinnsryche]

I don't like it. It looks like an aged reprint to me. I'm certainly not an expert grader/authenticator but it just doesn't look right. Just my 2 cents.

[Luke]

My opinion isn't worth much on post-war, but it just doesn't look right to me. I would never pay any money for it.

[irishdenny]

Originally Posted by whitehse

Isnt there a few companies that specialize in this type of thing? Perhaps you might want to try them first.

Although I Understand Your Answer...
There's A lot of Good Folks Here that HaVe BeeN Around A LoT LoNGer
Than the TPG's HaVe BeeN iN ExisTence...

ThiS iS WhaT We Do... We Help Each Other!

If Your Answer was meant to be anything other than Serious!?
Than Please Except My Apologies fir ThinkiN Otherwise...

Bobby iS a Grand ole' Fellar & His OpinioN iS Just as Noble...

With that Said, I do believe that PSA just deemed the Mick "Altered"
Just so they didn't have ta give an Opinion...
Which is why sometimes Paying for an Opinion isn't even worth the trip to the Post...

[vintagetoppsguy]

The card looks real to me. Perhaps it was soaked in a chemical (to remove the tape?) that washed out the colors.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

The card looks real to me. Perhaps it was soaked in a chemical (to remove the tape?) that washed out the colors.

I thought it looked fake David. As you know, a popular scam involves using PSA rejection flips with fake cards to make buyers think they are real. You can buy fake Mantle's all day long on Etsy for $5.99. This card sold for almost $200.

[bobbyw8469]

I have a poll going on over at PSA with quite different results from what I have heard here so far.

[whitehse]

Originally Posted by irishdenny

Although I Understand Your Answer...
There's A lot of Good Folks Here that HaVe BeeN Around A LoT LoNGer
Than the TPG's HaVe BeeN iN ExisTence...

ThiS iS WhaT We Do... We Help Each Other!

If Your Answer was meant to be anything other than Serious!?
Than Please Except My Apologies fir ThinkiN Otherwise...

Bobby iS a Grand ole' Fellar & His OpinioN iS Just as Noble...

With that Said, I do believe that PSA just deemed the Mick "Altered"
Just so they didn't have ta give an Opinion...
Which is why sometimes Paying for an Opinion isn't even worth the trip to the Post...

As a 51 year old collector who started when I was 9, I too have been around a good deal longer than the TPG companies and have my own idea of what a "mint" card is and typically dont need to have someone slab my cards and tell me what the grade is.

My comment was somewhat tongue in cheek as I knew he was running this same poll on PSA's message boards and assumed he might want to actually use their services instead of soliciting opinions from 40 different posters and getting 40 different opinions.

[drcy]

Looks fake to me.

[bobbyw8469]

Well....To be quite frank, I respect the opinions over here a lot more than I do over there. There seems to be more knowledgeable collectors over here than over there. I have a feeling some people are voting yes on the poll due to the fact that they don't like me, as opposed to actually rendering a true opinion on the card. I just have the image to go on. I do not own the card, nor am I trying to buy it. It has the same "Xeroxed" appearance as the numerous fake cards I have seen on Etsy. I was bringing to light the appearance of a scam that has been ongoing, and am actually quite shocked that some of the people think the card is real.

[conor912]

I wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole.....

[bobbyw8469]

by the way...because of certain situations, let my vote be recorded. I think the card is FAKE, and the buyer got duped to the tune of $190.

[conor912]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

by the way...because of certain situations, let my vote be recorded. I think the card is FAKE, and the buyer got duped to the tune of $190.

He should consider himself lucky. I'd be willing to bet we've all learned more expensive lessons at one point or another.

[irishdenny]

Originally Posted by whitehse

As a 51 year old collector who started when I was 9, I too have been around a good deal longer than the TPG companies and have my own idea of what a "mint" card is and typically dont need to have someone slab my cards and tell me what the grade is.

My comment was somewhat tongue in cheek as I knew he was running this same poll on PSA's message boards and assumed he might want to actually use their services instead of soliciting opinions from 40 different posters and getting 40 different opinions.

Very GooD Andrew!
I Thought ThaT there MiGHT of BeeN a Tale to This ThaT I havN'T Heard
I Truly meant no harm...

"Thank You fir Excepting My Apology..."

David... However, the Tape is still there?

Bobby, I've seen flips used just as you described.. But, I do think that the PSA Flip is genuine to the Submission of this Card & the Card is a Fake!
Many times PSA has sent back my cards as "Altered", I just think this is one of their ways of SayiN "We're Not Sure!?", jmho though...

But I'm Sure that You have a Bettar Feel fir things...
Having "Boots oN the Ground", so ta speak.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by conor912

He should consider himself lucky. I'd be willing to bet we've all learned more expensive lessons at one point or another.

God yes....there is a famous Pawn Shop that most everyone knows that got me to the tune of $4,000+.

[bobbyw8469]

Denny....usually a fake card will come back QUESTIONABLE AUTH? or something along that line. I once had a Mantle card that some young kid decided would look better with a mustache. Then someone else erased it off (everything was in pencil). That card came back ALTERED STOCK. Granted, I have submitted soooooooo many cards, and have seen nearly every scenario imaginable, that I have forgotten if that has its own flip or if it comes back ALTERED like this one did. I do know that it would be mega easy to pair a rejection flip with a fake card. The seller gets to keep his real card, and is out the $5 he paid for the fake. He then dupes the mark for a "bargain" price with the mark thinking he got a steal, but he paid quite a bit more than the $5 that the fake cost.

[pencil1974]

Just from the photo the printing doesn't look right, looks more like its from an inkjet printer than a regular offset press. Have you looked at it under a loop?

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by pencil1974

Just from the photo the printing doesn't look right, looks more like its from an inkjet printer than a regular offset press. Have you looked at it under a loop?

I don't own the card Brad. I saw it on Ebay, and thought right away it was a fake. I used to be able to warn people that the item they purchased was fake and helped them get their money back. With the new Ebay changes, that all stopped. The only hope now for the buyer to get their money back, is to send the item in for grading, and hope that the time limit hasn't passed to file a claim. It used to be 45 days. There was talk of extending it to 6 months, but not sure if that came to be or not.

[pencil1974]

I think its still 45 days if I'm not mistaken.

[MW1]

Fake

[irishdenny]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

Denny....usually a fake card will come back QUESTIONABLE AUTH? or something along that line. I once had a Mantle card that some young kid decided would look better with a mustache. Then someone else erased it off (everything was in pencil). That card came back ALTERED STOCK. Granted, I have submitted soooooooo many cards, and have seen nearly every scenario imaginable, that I have forgotten if that has its own flip or if it comes back ALTERED like this one did. I do know that it would be mega easy to pair a rejection flip with a fake card. The seller gets to keep his real card, and is out the $5 he paid for the fake. He then dupes the mark for a "bargain" price with the mark thinking he got a steal, but he paid quite a bit more than the $5 that the fake cost.

Yeah Bob, I hear ya...

It was just a gut feel from my past experience with Mantle's & PSA...
I just think PSA can be pretty Lazy at times!

Just another Day iN da Hobby... RiGHT!

[drcy]

I've never submitted and don't know the rules, but I would have assumed that if real (which it is not) the card would be holdered and graded as poor. Strictly talking about condition, it's in poor condition.

I guess the lesson for the particular buyer is to buy a 52 Bowman Mantle actually in a PSA holder and not next to one.

[vintagehofrookies]

it looks fake to me

[Econteachert205]

Card is no good in my opinion

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by Econteachert205

Card is no good in my opinion

What is funny to me is that the vast majority of people on this board think the card is fake. By a wide margin. The majority of people across the street think the card is real. Hmmmmmmmmmm. Any more thoughts?

[Leon]

It's a toss up to me. I actually think the card might be good and has taken on bad characteristics of the scan. If it looked that way with a real good scan, then definitely fake.

[darwinbulldog]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

What is funny to me is that the vast majority of people on this board think the card is fake. By a wide margin. The majority of people across the street think the card is real. Hmmmmmmmmmm. Any more thoughts?

I think the people across the street are fake.

[pencil1974]

If they are made of cardboard and you can figure out the year of the fake people there may be a buyer out there for them. Just pop a PSA flip rejection beside them and let the bidding begin.

[drcy]

I'm surprised many people on the other board would say looks real (I understand if people said they didn't know, for example if they don't collect Bowmans), because the front image obviously looks bad. The only reason why I think people would deduce it's real is the flip.

Maybe people who voted real on the other board don't collect Bowmans, but made a guess because there was a chatboard poll. Doesn't mean they were betting their house on it, just making a guess for a chatboard poll.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by drcy

I'm surprised people would say looks real (I understand if people said they didn't know, for example if they don't collect Bowmans), because the front image obviously looks bad. The only reason why I think people would deduce it's real is the flip.

The card looks bad, period. However, I have seen many, many times where a card looks bad due to a bad picture or scan and it wasn't bad. That is the only reason I would say I don't know, as it obviously doesn't look legit.

[vintagetoppsguy]

The people that are saying it looks bad are basing their opinion on the quality of the image. If there is something else they're basing it on, please let me know what you're seeing that I am missing.

I say it's good based on the characteristics of the card - I'm not even considering the quality of the image.

To me, just the tape that's on there is at least 40-50 years old. You can tell that by how yellow it is.

Edited to add: If someone were going to try the real flip/fake card trick, wouldn't they do it with a much better card in order to try and get more money from the scam?

[TNP777]

The aged tape puts me in the "it's real" camp. Can that be faked as well? I suppose so. I think it'd be much harder to pull off, though.

[conor912]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

The people that are saying it looks bad are basing their opinion on the quality of the image. If there is something else they're basing it on, please let me know what you're seeing that I am missing.

I say it's good based on the characteristics of the card - I'm not even considering the quality of the image.

To me, just the tape that's on there is at least 40-50 years old. You can tell that by how yellow it is.

Edited to add: If someone were going to try the real flip/fake card trick, wouldn't they do it with a much better card in order to try and get more money from the scam?

Could 30 year old tape look like that? Just asking, since this set was reprinted in the 80's.

[bobbyw8469]

I don't like that fact that the back has an "aged/stained/dirty" look on the reverse, and the front has a washed out look with nary a stain in sight. Those defects are not complimentary to each other. If the card is "stained" that way on the back, then it should look that way on the front. It is as though the card is trying too hard to look "old".

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

I don't like that fact that the back has an "aged/stained/dirty" look on the reverse, and the front has a washed out look with nary a stain in sight.

This is exactly why I think the card was soaked in some kind of chemical. I think the chemical washed out the color on the front and left the back with some kind of oily residue. The front and back may not absorb stains the same way. The front has a thin paper coating. The back is strictly cardboard.

[jsconscum]

Originally Posted by pencil1974

I think its still 45 days if I'm not mistaken.

I think its now 30 days.