1964 topps Curt Flood #103

[BillP]

Recently got caught up in this hype over this card and bought a graded one for $20. Not sure what the fuss is about. How does a single print show up in the 1st series of a regular series. Any uncut sheets to lend some explanation. Even if it was short printed by half, that doesn't support the price lift. Other SP's in other years in the 60"s don't command the differential that this card does.
Feedback welcome

bill

Not sure whether or not it's an SP, but it's a great looking card. Here's a pic of the Venezuelan version:

[Harliduck]

I remember reading once upon a time someone was hoarding them?

All I know is when I began working on my 64's, this card was a pain. Obviously didn't come in any lots. Lost multiple auctions on ebay until I finally found a nice EX+ card on a BIN, and completely overpaid...haha.

Whatever the reason for this card being what it is, it certainly has some serious demand.

[savedfrommyspokes]

Originally Posted by Harliduck

I remember reading once upon a time someone was hoarding them?

All I know is when I began working on my 64's, this card was a pain. Obviously didn't come in any lots. Lost multiple auctions on ebay until I finally found a nice EX+ card on a BIN, and completely overpaid...haha.

Whatever the reason for this card being what it is, it certainly has some serious demand.

Here is the thread that discusses the "hoarder" of this card...

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=171613


For years, there used to be just a handful of this card listed on ebay as BINs....now there appear to be around 50 copies available, most all over the $20 price point.

[JollyElm]

I searched for uncut Topps sheets from 1964 and I found this image and analyzed it.

Since I don't know the provenance of said sheets, we'll just have to accept that these are real and weren't changed at some point during printing. With that said, the blocks of cards outlined in red appear on the sheets 3 times. The cards outlined in blue appear only twice (I realize it's tough to make heads or tails out of the red and blue, so simply look to the far left and right edges to quickly make it easier on your eyes).

The Curt Flood card is highlighted in the yellow circles, and he appears in the blue sections. What's funny is, if he's a short print, then so are HOF'ers Yogi Berra, Ernie Banks, Lou Brock, Eddie Mathews, Walt Alston, Joe Torre, 'All Star Vets' (with Killer and Nellie Fox) and Hoyt Wilhelm, plus 2 separate leaders cards featuring Sandy Koufax and a couple of others with Hank Aaron, Willie Mays, Yaz, etc., on them.

Since all anybody ever wants to talk about is Mickey Mantle, I'll note that he appears 3 times.

flood.jpg

[savedfrommyspokes]

Darren, what I do not understand about the image of the 264 card sheet you have posted is the fact that there are cards from both the first and second series on the sheet(as the first series checklist lists cards 1-88 and the second series checklist list cards 89-176). Is this some sort of production sheet versus a normal 132 card sheet or were the series printed different than what the checklists show?

[JollyElm]

I honestly have no idea, Spokes. We need someone with a greater knowledge of sheets to chime in.

[moeson]

I recall that 1960's packs would always include some preview cards from the next series. I assume that is what these sheets represent.

[Rich Klein]

Is there is something to the Curt Flood "Scarcity", because way back in my NY area dealing days, and I have said this before -- I would have tons of Amado Samuel from the 1st ssries and precious few Tim Harkness cards. They were both 1st series NY Mets.

The 1964 Mantle is one of the three easiest regular issue Mantle cards (66 and 68) and everything I saw noted supports all that.

So, my opinion. There is a 3-2 scarcity on the 64 1st Series and not only Flood but the rest of the cards on his row are tougher than the other 64 1st series as well. Flood is perhaps more popular because of being a 64 Cardinal who won the World Series.

My Opinion Only (MOO)

Rich

[Harliduck]

Probably means nothing but in my initial 64 Topps lots I purchased for my set #57 Tim Harkness was no where to be found. I had to purchase on Ebay, which for set builders sucks on any 1st Series commons...

[savedfrommyspokes]

Unlike the 64 Flood, the demand for 64 Topps Harkness cards appears to have subsided....currently on ebay there are 20+ copies available in the $1-3 price range.

For whatever reason, the demand (and thus the price) of the Flood card IMO was dictated by one collector(hoarder) of this card. Several years ago before the typical asking price of this card went above the $20 mark(now very few, if any of the 50 or so copies currently on ebay are priced below $20) the hoarder of this card was a buyer...as the asking price of this card has escalated, he is not buying as many copies of this card and the supply (at $20+ asking price) has grown due to overall reduced demand.

Another example of this type of hoarding by a single collector of one copy of a card is the 1961 Topps 242 Hal Smith card. One collector has been buying copies of this seemingly $1 common (as most midgrade, lower series 61 Topps cards sell for) for $4-5. There are typically very few if any copies of this card available due to this one collector purchasing them.

[Collectorsince62]

Before EBay changed the search feature, you could follow the activity of a buyer. I watched the '64 Flood hoarder buy every nice copy he could get . . . spending a small fortune. The more I watched, the more he bought. The more he bought, the more would be auctioned, and the cycle continued for a long long time. It's just not a scarce card - even after the hoarding. Think of the great vintage collection that money could have purchased.

[mattsedate]

Originally Posted by BillP

Recently got caught up in this hype over this card and bought a graded one for $20. Not sure what the fuss is about. How does a single print show up in the 1st series of a regular series. Any uncut sheets to lend some explanation. Even if it was short printed by half, that doesn't support the price lift. Other SP's in other years in the 60"s don't command the differential that this card does.
Feedback welcome

bill

Collecting can be crazy.

[swarmee]

Pop 1 PSA 10 Flood

Surprised this hasn't been added to the hoard yet. And I checked, it's still a POP 1.

[RobertGT]

The market correction on the 64 Flood card is well underway. Perhaps the hoarder has realized the futility of his efforts. You simply cannot corner the market on a post-war card. Below are prices for PSA 9 Flood from the VCP going back to 2010:

Latest Auction Prices for: PSA 9 - Average Price: $546.44

Listing Type: Show:
Date Auction Link Price Extra
11/4/14 eBay Auction $575.10
9/15/14 eBay Listing $599.00 9
6/18/14 eBay $517.78
5/11/14 Memory Lane $350.13
12/17/13 eBay $600.14
9/18/12 eBay $898.00
10/21/11 Mile High $824.67
9/25/11 eBay $840.90
8/21/11 Memory Lane $1,497.30
6/19/11 eBay $1,235.25
5/29/11 eBay $1,705.01
5/3/11 eBay $2,500.00
4/21/11 eBay $1,725.10
8/15/10 Memory Lane $2,803.70
8/14/10 eBay $3,050.05
4/18/10 Memory Lane $9,156.30

[1963Topps Set]

I did not have any problems finding any of the 1964 Topps cards and finished the set with relative ease...no high number issues with this set at all!

[Paul S]

Information wise, I pulled this (and all 1st series cards) from packs in 1964 in Los Angeles. Remained unprotected until about 7 years ago. I guess I missed the price bubble