Pinholes-Grading

[yankees23]

I recently acquired an ungraded N28 Anson with a pinhole in it. I'm planning on sending it for grading but I'm curious your thoughts on if either SGC or PSA grades pinholes more harshly? From my experience it seems like SGC grades cards with paper loss lower so I'm curious if the same is true with pinholes? I'll probably send it to SGC but I really want to avoid the dreaded "A." Has no creases so I think it should at least get a "1." Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!

[bn2cardz]

A pinhole with SGC and PSA both brought it to a 1 in my experience. A pinhole never by itself put it to an A.

[Luke]

If the card is nice otherwise, you will probably get a 20 from SGC

[Leon]

Originally Posted by LukeLyon

If the card is nice otherwise, you will probably get a 20 from SGC

+1. I think SGC is pretty consistent in this area today (though I am sure an anomaly or two exists). This T5 Cobb is close to Near Mint..It is in far better shape than the Clarke next to it.....but has a pinhole. I don't know how PSA grades pinholes but SGC seems a bit harsh (in my biased opinion).

[tschock]

Originally Posted by Leon

+1. I think SGC is pretty consistent in this area today (though I am sure an anomaly or two exists). This T5 Cobb is close to Near Mint..It is in far better shape than the Clarke next to it.....but has a pinhole. I don't know how PSA grades pinholes but SGC seems a bit harsh (in my biased opinion).

I was going to say that the overall impact to the appearance of the card should be considered, as I think that Cobb is MUCH nicer looking. A pinhole in the 'border' of the card is not as big of a beat down than one in the middle of Cobb's head for example (IMO). I guess I'd rather have them grade on the overall appearance of the card while pointing out any obvious (and not so obvious) flaws such creases, pinholes, alteration, trimming, etc. But that puts us down another rabbit hole as well, so back to the old adage.... BTCNTH.

[Fred]

I think if the card is in really good shape then the best you'll see is an SGC20. If the card is relatively beat then the best you'll get is an SGC10. There was an Anson on ebay last night that sold for about $600+ with a pin hole. That card would probably get an SGC10 (or PSA1) because of the overall condition of that card. The price on that card last night was a pretty good deal when you consider there wasn't any back damage and the overall of appearance of the card was VG-ish otherwise.

[calvindog]

Similarly, probably an 84 if not for the small staple holes.

[yankees23]

Originally Posted by Fred

I think if the card is in really good shape then the best you'll see is an SGC20. If the card is relatively beat then the best you'll get is an SGC10. There was an Anson on ebay last night that sold for about $600+ with a pin hole. That card would probably get an SGC10 (or PSA1) because of the overall condition of that card. The price on that card last night was a pretty good deal when you consider there wasn't any back damage and the overall of appearance of the card was VG-ish otherwise.

That would be the one I purchased Yeah, great deal for what should grade at least a 1.

[Fred]

That was a good price on that card. Nice pickup.

[yankees23]

Originally Posted by Fred

That was a good price on that card. Nice pickup.

Thanks. I think there wasn't many bidders because it was hard to find on Ebay. The seller didn't list it as an N28 and being that it was was ungraded. I just happened to have done an Anson search

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by bn2cardz

A pinhole with SGC and PSA both brought it to a 1 in my experience. A pinhole never by itself put it to an A.

So let me get this straight. I think my card was undergraded. It has seven pinholes and should have received a grade 7. Right???

[Leon]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Similarly, probably an 84 if not for the small staple holes.

That is certainly one of the best looking "poor" cards in the hobby. I tried to argue with SGC, on the T5 above, that their written grading standards say a 30 can have a pinhole. I think they need to change their written definition to reflect the best a card with a pinhole can receive is a 20.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Leon

That is certainly one of the best looking "poor" cards in the hobby. I tried to argue with SGC, on the T5 above, that their written grading standards say a 30 can have a pinhole. I think they need to change their written definition to reflect the best a card with a pinhole can receive is a 20.

Thanks. What's difficult to understand is that when you get down to all the 10/1 grades that can encompass a card completely beaten to crap all the way up to the above Cobb. As Leon points out, how can a 10 look this good -- especially when so many 20s, 30s, etc. can't even compare? Maybe such a pin-holed card should instead receive a special qualification like ST, OC, etc? Collectors oftentimes view a 10 as a 10 no matter what the card looks like as they're too concerned about resale value instead of what the card actually looks like. Maybe a "PH" qualifier would solve that.

[ethicsprof]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Thanks. What's difficult to understand is that when you get down to all the 10/1 grades that can encompass a card completely beaten to crap all the way up to the above Cobb. As Leon points out, how can a 10 look this good -- especially when so many 20s, 30s, etc. can't even compare? Maybe such a pin-holed card should instead receive a special qualification like ST, OC, etc? Collectors oftentimes view a 10 as a 10 no matter what the card looks like as they're too concerned about resale value instead of what the card actually looks like. Maybe a "PH" qualifier would solve that.

well said, Jeff.
I'd like to see the PH qualifier ASAP.
best,
barry

[Fred]

Yeah, what Lichtman said.

I've seen quite a few SGC10s or PSA1s that look really nice but have been hammered due to a pin hole or some other issue that isn't too noticeable. I'd gladly buy a beautiful card with a small pin hole at the "2" price rather than purchase a thrashed "2" at the "1" price.

[Beatles Guy]

I'm glad to pay pin hole prices for otherwise beautiful, tough cards. I got a '52 high number the other day that could have been a 6 without the pinhole. Still a great card.

[dabigyankeeman]

I got a Ruth Kashin with a pinhole and you can make out where a thumbtack was, and it got a "1" grade. The rest of the card is beautiful.

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

So let me get this straight. I think my card was undergraded. It has seven pinholes and should have received a grade 7. Right???

Frank, crack it out and go for the Gem Mint 10.

[ls7plus]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Similarly, probably an 84 if not for the small staple holes.

Great looking card, Jeff. As I've said before, a lot less of a card's material is lost to small pinholes than to well-worn corners. If you really have to look hard to see why the card has been down-graded severely from what its general appearance is, IMHO, that kind of defect has only a minor effect on its desireability. I'd take that Cobb any day, without "batting" an eye!

Sincerely,

Larry