How are the grading companies doing?

[ullmandds]

We bitch about SGC's crummy tombs and inserts...PSA's seemingly lackadaisical standards...BCG suspect on vintage and now in the auction business...yet they can grade Fro Joys? GAI basically a non factor.

ACC designation errors, Wrong player name, inability to consistently detect alterations, lack of fortitude to accurately grade anomalies...

TPG'ers have become a necessary facet of the hobby...but are they doing a good enough job?

[kmac32]

Truthfully, When I send my cards in for grading, it is not about the grade, is is more about presentation. My collection is all SGC graded as the cards look nice in the holders and are protected. If I had to pay somebody for custom framing of each card and labeling, I would be paying way more than 10 dollars per card and I would not be able to pick up the cards and handle them. With the cards being graded, I can handle them and not have to worry about possibly damaging the cards by doing so. With all that said, it does make it difficult to attach to the spokes of my bicycle and the noise that they would make is not nearly as cool as the old baseball cards from the late 60's and early 70's.

[kamikidEFFL]

I agree with what kmac says. I really just like having them protected and like the way they are presented. I do also like that graded cards hold value better. I feel that they do a pretty good job.

[Jobu]

Pete, I have often wondered what drives many of the problems you mention. I am starting to think that many of these issues may actually intentionally be built into the system. If TPGs were ultra consistent in their grading, had flawless holders, flawless flips, perfect pop reports, etc there would be no crossing over and back, no cracking and resubmitting multiple times hoping for a better grade, etc. Basically, they would be costing themselves a LOT of money. I wonder if TPGs looked at the finite number of vintage cards to be graded and decided that they could stay in business a lot longer if they built some error into the system so that over time they could get paid for grading a lot of cards multiple times. I realize that I am leaving the new card market out of the equation as I don't know much about it, but it seems many of the same problems exist there as well (though obviously new cards are still being printed).

Originally Posted by ullmandds

We bitch about SGC's crummy tombs and inserts...PSA's seemingly lackadaisical standards...BCG suspect on vintage and now in the auction business...yet they can grade Fro Joys? GAI basically a non factor.

ACC designation errors, Wrong player name, inability to consistently detect alterations, lack of fortitude to accurately grade anomalies...

TPG'ers have become a necessary facet of the hobby...but are they doing a good enough job?

[freakhappy]

Other than this nasty crease/bend in a PSA 4, I'd say not too bad...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1909-T206-T-...item2c95b1597d

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Jobu

Pete, I have often wondered what drives many of the problems you mention. I am starting to think that many of these issues may actually intentionally be built into the system. If TPGs were ultra consistent in their grading, had flawless holders, flawless flips, perfect pop reports, etc there would be no crossing over and back, no cracking and resubmitting multiple times hoping for a better grade, etc. Basically, they would be costing themselves a LOT of money. I wonder if TPGs looked at the finite number of vintage cards to be graded and decided that they could stay in business a lot longer if they built some error into the system so that over time they could get paid for grading a lot of cards multiple times. I realize that I am leaving the new card market out of the equation as I don't know much about it, but it seems many of the same problems exist there as well (though obviously new cards are still being printed).

While you may be right...this is obviously disconcerting to me! SO as a dentist it would be in my better interests to do a "shoddy" job rendering my treatment so as to "create" more return business??? Problem with this theory is that there are many other dentists out there my patients can turn too when they lose faith in my abilities...whereas we have very few options with TPG'ers!

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

While you may be right...this is obviously disconcerting to me! SO as a dentist it would be in my better interests to do a "shoddy" job rendering my treatment so as to "create" more return business??? Problem with this theory is that there are many other dentists out there my patients can turn too when they lose faith in my abilities...whereas we have very few options with TPG'ers!

Well the late 1970s to current market would die if there were no PSA 9's or PSA 10s...without TPG ..everyone would say their card is 'mint'.....raw that would be 2 bucks etc for a 1983 common..but a psa 10....10 bucks or more...

the market is bigger for people wanting graded cards ..you should thank TPGs for that.

not to mention it cases of theft and lost, people are able to find the exact card on the secondary market....

not sure how it was so great before TPGs....you don't have to have cards graded now as well if you don't want to....

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

Well the late 1970s to current market would die if there were no PSA 9's or PSA 10s...without TPG ..everyone would say their card is 'mint'.....raw that would be 2 bucks etc for a 1983 common..but a psa 10....10 bucks or more...

the market is bigger for people wanting graded cards ..you should thank TPGs for that.

not to mention it cases of theft and lost, people are able to find the exact card on the secondary market....

not sure how it was so great before TPGs....you don't have to have cards graded now as well if you don't want to....

I am not questioning the "relevance" or "importance" of TPG'ers for the hobby. I am questioning their abilities?

[Orioles1954]

How many professional graders are employed by PSA, BGS/BVG and SGC combined? Other than hobby experience there is no criteria for being a professional grader....and I'm certain they don't apply their standards to each card. We mistakenly think that TPGs analyze each card under a microscope with the highest degree of scrutiny. In reality, they are probably under tight and stressful deadlines and maybe eyeball a card for a couple of seconds before rendering a verdict.

[vthobby]

From some recent conversations at bigger shows with some insiders I would estimate:

Beckett: 5 graders
PSA: 10 graders
SGC: 4 graders

I think during the heyday, these numbers were double or triple these numbers.

Just an educated guess.

Peace, Mike

[Rich Klein]

I don't know the exact numbers but BGS is doing just fine on a monetary basis

In fact they are doing so well they sent out public emails seeking out more graders.

Rich

[mrvster]

......thinking that their "quality" control in all tpg's need to be tightened up...

pssstt...

you know how I feel......

maybe one day a grading co. will be started by the obsessed collector??? hint...hint...hint...you will be part of it a little birdie told me

I still think sgc does a " tits up job" inmho....a little vulgar of me to say, meaning "a great job".....sgc makes mistakes and their gaskets are sucking lately, but that should be easily fixed, and are the best tpg!!!! inmho...

sgc has great customer service, and are the most knowledgable...

Earl, Bob , and the rest of the crew at SGC are Godsends ....yes they occasionally make a mistake, but we are all human...

[chipperhank44]

Card grading is subjective, so consistency is impossible.

The value of grading is a third party's opinion on condition and the protection to keep the card in it's stated condition (some better than others).

Whether you disagree with the grades you receive or think you were fortunate, your bias played no factor in the process. That is the beauty of TPGs.

[felada]

When did sgc start assigning grades to altered cards? And why? They refuse to holder a caramel card that shows no evidence of trimming but measures 1/16 short based on dimensions on the standard catalog but will grade a rebacked card a 20?

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by Orioles1954

How many professional graders are employed by PSA, BGS/BVG and SGC combined? Other than hobby experience there is no criteria for being a professional grader....and I'm certain they don't apply their standards to each card. We mistakenly think that TPGs analyze each card under a microscope with the highest degree of scrutiny. In reality, they are probably under tight and stressful deadlines and maybe eyeball a card for a couple of seconds before rendering a verdict.

Tight and stressful deadlines you say,,, well,,
when PSA first formed an autograph authentication division it was Spence, myself, Stinson and Ron Gordon. Any one of the last three would gladly tell you that time was a most important factor to the company. Do not spend too much time on one item. Speed over accuracy was the rule. If it applied to autographs, it only follows that the same rule would apply to cards.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by felada

When did sgc start assigning grades to altered cards? And why? They refuse to holder a caramel card that shows no evidence of trimming but measures 1/16 short based on dimensions on the standard catalog but will grade a rebacked card a 20?

what are u referring to?

[felada]

http://www.baggersauctions.com/DTL.j...AE18451886BFBE

[Leon]

Originally Posted by felada

http://www.baggersauctions.com/DTL.j...AE18451886BFBE

What lot specifically? Your link is a general one. I don't remember SGC giving numbers to altered cards (except hand cut strips)....

[BeanTown]

I think any hand cut card from the 19th century would be OK. Heck, Terry with TIK used to use that a sales aide. I also think S81 silks would be OK to be short as well. I didnt see the caramel card lot that was describe above.

[felada]

Leon
The oj spotted tie. Graded 20 (rebacked)

[Leon]

Originally Posted by felada

Leon
The oj spotted tie. Graded 20 (rebacked)

wow.....First time I have seen that. I hope it was a mistake but don't think it was. I don't' think I agree with them on this one.....but at least they noted it is rebacked. In my mind it should be AUT.....

ps..I should add, this being said, if it is an attempt at fixing the sepia cards grading criteria that doesn't matter too much, it's a good first attempt. We usually lament the gem photo cards that are graded a 1 or a 2, but with a back flaw, in the context of the ones that resemble a ghost, but with sharp corners, receiving a 5, 6 or 7.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by felada

Leon
The oj spotted tie. Graded 20 (rebacked)

Word back from SGC, just now, is that the rebacked card with a numerical grade is a mistake and it's being addressed.