T206 Frank Delehanty

[carlsonjok]

At the risk of raising the ire of regulars by being the eleventy thousandth person to ask this, I wanted to ask a question about grading of a T206 Frank Delehanty. I bought the following at a show today from a seller I deal with regularly.



It is in great condition, so I paid $60 for it. However, T206 is not really in my collecting wheelhouse. I am mainly a post-war set builder (and haven't even gotten out of the 1970s yet.) However, I was thinking that I might grade it* and flip it in order to finance my normal collecting activities. As far as condition, the corners are a little soft, there is a vertical surface wrinkle from the bottom of the card up to the top of the L on the back, and the smudge on the top right hand corner, also on the back. So my questions are as follows:

1. Is the return over my $60 investment large enough to justify grading?
2. Is there a preferred grading company for cards of this vintage?

* I know many, if not most, folks here are not particularly enamored with grading. I don't have opinions on it one way or the other, although I never buy graded cards. However, there is a market out there for them and if I can take advantage of it, why not?

[t206hound]

With the wrinkle, it wouldn't get higher than a 3.5-4... And that assumes it's not trimmed (and my guess is that it is).

[Luke]

Yeah, it's going to get an "A" most likely. A "3" if you're lucky. Not much chance of recouping your $60

[asoriano]

Hi Jeff -

I think Erick is right - the card appears to be trimmed from the scan provided (bottom edge looks pretty wavy).

Nice Delehanty nonetheless!

[carlsonjok]

Originally Posted by t206hound

With the wrinkle, it wouldn't get higher than a 3.5-4... And that assumes it's not trimmed (and my guess is that it is).

Thanks for responding. I did compare it's size to a well-loved T206 at the show and it looked to be the same size. I just measured it here and it comes in spot on at 1 7/16" x 2 5/8". As far as grading, it looks like a 3.5 to 4 won't generate any great windfall for me. I guess I'll just keep it. There are worse outcomes, right?

[wazoo]

They can measure the proper size but still be trimmed. I also agree with Erick.

[carlsonjok]

Originally Posted by asoriano

Hi Jeff -

I think Erick is right - the card appears to be trimmed from the scan provided (bottom edge looks pretty wavy).

Nice Delehanty nonetheless!

You have better eyes than I do. I had to really blow up the scan to see what you are talking about. I would have figured the top would have been trimmed due to the sharper corners, but blown up it shows some chipping that the forum article talked about.

Ah well, live and learn. I guess I won't be quitting my day job to sell cards. Thank you all for commenting.

[steve B]

Looks ok to me. Hard to tell from a scan, even a decent one.

The crease I think would limit it to a 40/3 maybe a bit less. (maybe a 50 if you're lucky.) Without the crease it would probably do well enough to make it worth sending in under the current special -55, maybe 60.

It's a nice looking card. I think you'll have trouble with a quick flip, but not in a few years. 5-10 maybe. Maybe quicker depending on the economy.


Steve B

[mrvster]

hate to tell you sir, but measure top to bottom.....my instinct tells me its short 1/16 " ......looks short in the scan....

also, this is a $25 card......$30.00 pushing it.....your guy jacked you on this card....


id go back and pull up this post......tell him he owes you another T206 common at least! fgeesh!!

btw...if you can, check w us first


john vanderbeck

[the 'stache]

Jeff, looking at this card, best case scenario, you're looking at a good to very good, so a 2 or 3 grade. Realistically, I think you're looking at an auth. I'll tell you why. First of all, you've got a crease showing clearly on the back of the card, running from the bottom vertically up the center (though I can't tell if it presents on the front of the card, as well). The left to right centering is quite off, 70/30. The lower-left corner is dog eared. The lower-right corner is soft. The top two corners appear much sharper. Uneven corner wear like that is a red flag for trimming. I would need to see the card in person to be sure. Card appears diamond cut, also.

If you're going to start buying and flipping T206 cards, you need to get one to keep. Get a lower grade example, and take a straight razor + ruler, and cut one edge. Then, get yourself a nice 10x loupe, and compare that edge against the others. You should be able to differentiate between a factory cut edge + normal wear vs a trimmed edge. If you have that card with you, you can compare it to any card you are buying.

You overpaid for this card. It's ok, because we've all done that before. In the future, you want to think of all your costs up front. You paid $60 for this card. To get it graded, you have to pay for the shipping there and back, as well as insurance. Then, on top of that, you have the fee from SGC or PSA. You might have piggy backed a group submission, which I think they've started doing here on Net54. If you'd submitted to SGC, they may have had a special. But even with a special on grading, or a lower cost due to a group submission, you weren't going to make any kind of a profit once you paid $60 for that card.

In the future, ask people here for input. You can always take a picture with your cell phone and get a quick opinion on the card, the price you'd be paying, and what you'd be looking to do with it.

Good luck!

Bill

[carlsonjok]

Originally Posted by the 'stache

If you're going to start buying and flipping T206 cards, you need to get one to keep.

I'm not. It was just an opportunistic pickup which didn't work out. I'll keep the card and go back to collecting what I know.

You overpaid for this card.

Indeed, but I don't believe it was a deliberate ripoff like another poster suggested. This card was among a group of about two dozen T206s in various grades. If he was trying to rip folks off there would have been more than just this card in that condition. My guess is that he bought the lot from a collector that originally bought it in this condition.

I've done business with this dealer for a number of years and he has always priced fairly. When I've spent my bank, he'll let me take cards (including, one time, a NM 1962 Willie Mays) and send him a check later and I've given him money for cards he forgot to bring with him and have him mail me the card. When I see him at the next show, he'll make this right.

[the 'stache]

Jeff,

I totally get where you're coming from. At no point while looking at this card did I think to myself "you got ripped off." If he had a few dozen T206 cards on sale, I'm betting he didn't spend too much time looking over any one card. He certainly didn't critique a scan the way we've been doing. It's easy to miss a wrinkle on the back, or variance in corner sharpness when you're putting out a whole bunch of cards. That you've had good dealings with him in the past just reinforces my thinking that you took a shot, and missed. There's nothing wrong with that. In the future you might come across a similar opportunity, recall a few of the things we looked at, and either leave the card, or try to negotiate a lower price. Who knows, somewhere down the road you might find a card that's underpriced, and get a deal. So, when I think of what you received for your money, you not only got a nice card, but you got some experience. You can sell that card back, and get a good chunk of your money back. But the experience will stay with you.

If you ask me, taking a shot at something outside of your comfort zone showed some real moxie. So, good for you.

[clydepepper]

Jeff- one key point to remember about the T206 cards (and other pre-WWI issues) is that when they were produced, there was no absolutely precise machine making them all exactly the same size. I believe it seems more prevalent with the T206 because it was by far the largest set from the period.

I say that as a relative layman compared to my fellow Net54 members, but I have always understood that to be true. I'm sure that, if I am incorrect in this assertion, someone with more knowledge will step up and correct me.

Collecting in the period can be a lot of fun, but, as with anything, can have its own perils and pitfalls.

Feel free to 'lean on' the Net54 members' expertise (not confident enough to include myself in that) any time.

[carlsonjok]

Originally Posted by the 'stache

J
If you ask me, taking a shot at something outside of your comfort zone showed some real moxie. So, good for you.

As risk taking goes, it wasn't *that* big a step. My wife shows horses for a hobby. $60 is half a tank of diesel.

[mrvster]

...so harsh.....my apologies.....the guy prob wasn't trying to rip you off, chalk it up to error.......

not a total loss....see if he will take it back???

[matthew]

I'm a sucker for a that green background. It is a good looking example of one of my favorite cards. So what if it may be trimmed. If you like it, keep it.

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by carlsonjok

As risk taking goes, it wasn't *that* big a step. My wife shows horses for a hobby. $60 is half a tank of diesel.

Oh, I know. I was a stockbroker. I was more referencing the spirit behind the transaction, and not the monetary implications.