Simple Auction Site

[thehoodedcoder]

can someone give me pricing details on the Simple Auction Site software?

also, where does the database and code files reside?

kevin

[Leon]

You should email Bob Freedman for details. He is owner (with his brother, I believe) He is a forum member but I would think it would be best done that way..

bob@simpleauctionsite.com



.

[sports-rings]

I may be bidding with an auction house I have never done business with before. They are using simpleauctionsite.com for their bidding software.

In case I need to put a max bid in before the end of the auction, can the readers here reassure me that the auction house will not have my ceiling bid information?

I recall that's the case, but just want to be sure. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks!

[Leon]

Originally Posted by sports-rings

I may be bidding with an auction house I have never done business with before. They are using simpleauctionsite.com for their bidding software.

In case I need to put a max bid in before the end of the auction, can the readers here reassure me that the auction house will not have my ceiling bid information?

I recall that's the case, but just want to be sure. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks!

You have to ask the auction house that. Sometimes they will state it in their rules. Simple Auction s/w can be programmed however the auction house wants. B and L has never seen up to bids nor will we.

[sports-rings]

thanks Leon,

that's good to know.

Wish it was kind of mandated by simpleauctinosite.com that all auction houses could not see ceiling bids.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by sports-rings

thanks Leon,

that's good to know.

Wish it was kind of mandated by simpleauctinosite.com that all auction houses could not see ceiling bids.

IMO that would have been a bad move on their part. Businesses should be able to do what they want to. It is up to us collectors to support AH's decisions or not. Would you want your car to be limited to the speed limit by the automaker?

[drcy]

Agree with Leon. Simple Auction is offering customized computer software and programing services. It's not up to them to dictate auction houses' bidding rules. They probably wouldn't have many if any customers if they dictated bidding rules and auction houses' shipping rates, premium percentages and return policies on people who paid for their services, and I would imagine a selling point is the software is customizable.

[thehoodedcoder]

If you as a customer, do not trust the software that the auction house uses for, say reliability for taking your bids and it affected your bidding strategies etc. couldn't and wouldn't it affect your business with merchants that use that software?

On a similar note, If you knew that you constantly get screwed by that software's max bid system wouldn't you be hesitant to buy from people that use it?

I'd like to think so. You as a buyer have to trust the seller, and the software manufacturer which is an extension of the sellers business model. It is upon both of them of them to make and implement software with integrity. If there is no useful purpose for that information or that information can only be used to perpetuate things which are illegal, then I would say that it is equally as important for the software manufacturer to put adequate protections into place to protect against their own liability.

I'm certain that if it ever got out, that the software could do that, the number of people wanting to bid with that software using a max bid, would go down fast. I have always questioned to what extent the software protects against someone with above average computer skills, from determining what a max bid is, even if the software had intentions to hide this information and I'd still be interested in investigating the back end, and code to determine if there are any gaps that should be closed.

As a side note, consider this scenario: If say B and L use SimpleAuctionSite for their business and someone finds an exploit in the software which was reported as a problem(lets say personally identifiable information loss or credit card numbers are stolen) which was not addressed by the software vendor who knew the problem existed, the software vendor could be liable for not addressing known issues which resulted in the losses to the customer due to negligence.

Kevin

[Leon]

Originally Posted by thehoodedcoder

If you as a customer, do not trust the software that the auction house uses for, say reliability for taking your bids and it affected your bidding strategies etc. couldn't and wouldn't it affect your business with merchants that use that software?

On a similar note, If you knew that you constantly get screwed by that software's max bid system wouldn't you be hesitant to buy from people that use it?

I'd like to think so. You as a buyer have to trust the seller, and the software manufacturer which is an extension of the sellers business model. It is upon both of them of them to make and implement software with integrity. If there is no useful purpose for that information or that information can only be used to perpetuate things which are illegal, then I would say that it is equally as important for the software manufacturer to put adequate protections into place to protect against their own liability.

I'm certain that if it ever got out, that the software could do that, the number of people wanting to bid with that software using a max bid, would go down fast. I have always questioned to what extent the software protects against someone with above average computer skills, from determining what a max bid is, even if the software had intentions to hide this information and I'd still be interested in investigating the back end, and code to determine if there are any gaps that should be closed.

As a side note, consider this scenario: If say B and L use SimpleAuctionSite for their business and someone finds an exploit in the software which was reported as a problem(lets say personally identifiable information loss or credit card numbers are stolen) which was not addressed by the software vendor who knew the problem existed, the software vendor could be liable for not addressing known issues which resulted in the losses to the customer due to negligence.

Kevin

If my uncle had tits he would be my aunt. You make a lot of accusations and assumptions and personally I think you are speaking out of your ass. (changed to make sense, but I don't think the point was lost...thanks Denny )

[irishdenny]

Originally Posted by Leon

If my aunt had tits she would be my uncle. You make a lot of accusations and assumptions and personally I think you are speaking out of your ass.

Ahhh... Leon my good friend! I think you might be a bit upset at sed poster!
I do believe that your Aunt has tits... And Your Uncle is Very Grateful for those

[sports-rings]

On a similar note, If you knew that you constantly get screwed by that software's max bid system wouldn't you be hesitant to buy from people that use it?

It's so rare that I put a max bid in, but I can't imagine what good can come out of an auction house or their employees knowing my max bid.

As I mentioned in my earlier post, this is a new auction house.

[thehoodedcoder]

Originally Posted by Leon

If my uncle had tits he would be my aunt. You make a lot of accusations and assumptions and personally I think you are speaking out of your ass. (changed to make sense, but I don't think the point was lost...thanks Denny )

Um. Sure. If your uncle had tits, he would not be your aunt, he would have gynocomastia.

There wasn't a single accusation in the post though, so I'm really not sure where you are going with your entire response. It really is quite defensive though, I must say.

I do, however work in the IT industry. I don't think it would be very hard for me to find something that needs improvement in the way of security. I'm guessing by your response, you would never be interested in finding any holes in the software. Right?

The fact of the matter is I was just on the phone today with love of the game auctions and there is a problem with the Amount Due calculations in the Simple Auction Software. If the proper billing amount can't be summed correctly, do you think the rest of the software is bullet proof? Go ahead and call them up and ask about the issue if you want.

Over time, there have been off board discussions about the software that give me even greater confidence in my suspicions.

Maybe since you use the software you can answer the burning question. Does the software allow you to see a max bid in any way?

Kevin

[Sean1125]

Originally Posted by leon

if my uncle had tits he would be my aunt. You make a lot of accusations and assumptions and personally i think you are speaking out of your ass. (changed to make sense, but i don't think the point was lost...thanks denny )

ghahahahahahahahahahahah

[irishdenny]

Originally Posted by thehoodedcoder

Maybe since you use the software you can answer the burning question. Does the software allow you to see a max bid in any way?

Kevin

Hey there Kevin,

I do Believe that Leon answered your question even before you asked!
I do admire Your due diligence into the matter. However, Strictly from a Business Standpoint, And You even said that You work in the IT geek world...
I would almost imagine that You would really understand the point that when a company provides a Service, Having as many options available for the Customer to Choose from is what Provider/Customer diversity is all about.

I do believe that You see clear to the option of "Can or Can't See"...
And I do understand Your "Hobby Watch Mentality".
I think the issue here just lies into All of uS being as diligent as You have been.

No one like's to be Shilled... oR!?
The Provider is Just the Provider... The Provider is Not Responsible for how others Run their Company... Nor should they be!

Just my 2 pennies

As Always...

[thehoodedcoder]

By that same logic, then sponsors shouldn't drop sports stars when they do things that hurt their image? After all, they are just a company and bear no burden from who or what their sponsored individuals do in their personal time? Right?

Lets take it even a step further. What if the software had the ability to install malware to your computer to serve advertising. It is only on the auction house to determine if they want to infect your computer with unwanted advertising. It is offered in the auction software, but the auction house gets to chose whether they use it or not? Does that sound like a good idea? I mean, its the responsibility of the auction house on what they do, and who they do business with after all right?

Lets be realistic here. The auction house software provider has a responsibility to not provide options which so easily promote unethical behavior and have absolutely no real useful business value. Not only that, knowing that fraud is being committed with your software and doing nothing about it is negligent in regards to the law. Most businesses wouldn't want this burden and unnecessary risk looming over their business.

Kevin

[autograf]

Sorry to hear about your uncle Leon.......

[steve B]

Originally Posted by thehoodedcoder

Lets take it even a step further. What if the software had the ability to install malware to your computer to serve advertising. It is only on the auction house to determine if they want to infect your computer with unwanted advertising. It is offered in the auction software, but the auction house gets to chose whether they use it or not? Does that sound like a good idea? I mean, its the responsibility of the auction house on what they do, and who they do business with after all right?

Kevin

You mean like Ebay which is infested with ads from doubleclick.net and whatever the new one is I ran across yesterday?

Or like Facebook?
Or like ...........the majority of large commercial websites? (It's always amusing when the ads are for their competitors)

It's annoying, but from what I see out there it's probably not hurting business much.

All software has flaws and security holes. That's the sort of thing that happens with overly complex systems. But my opinions about software in general don't really belong here.


Steve B

[sports-rings]

I wonder if we got off topic here.

as an example, I use ebay to purchase items from sellers. I'm glad that no matter which sellers decide to use ebay, they don't know my max bid. How well do I know a seller or people who might work for the seller or be friends with the seller. I don't want the seller to know my max bid and I'm glad ebay does not leave it up to the seller (in this case, ebay's cusomter, since they pay the fee to ebay) to decide what access they have to ebay.

a lot of (me included, sometimes crap on certain auction companies), why wold we want the most used software out there to share personal information. what good comes out of that.

when companies put in writing that they don't know the max bids ahead of time, that instills more confidence in me to use the handy tool in the first place.

[thehoodedcoder]

Won't someone just come out and say yes, that the auction house can see the max bid, without beating around the bush?

Do, none of the action houses want to admit this openly? Maybe, Leon who runs the site, and uses the software can answer this question in a direct yes or no fashion.

I'm not sure why all of a sudden the responses went cold, after he told me I was talking out of my ass.

Kevin

[thehoodedcoder]

Hi All,

Bob just did me a favor and confirmed on the phone that as an administrator of the simpleauctionsite script you can see the max bids.

In my opinion this makes the software very suspect to potential fraud.

No wonder everyone is so defensive around this question. It was the same exact formulated response "It is up to the auction house if they want to use that feature", that everyone is giving.

Kevin

[sports-rings]

Bob,

a friend just informed me that every auction house also has the ability to retrieve passwords and in theory could log onto your account.

can you imagine if ebay sellers were able to log onto bidders accounts?

Please know I am not insinuating any of the auction companies are doing this, but I this disturbing.

I incorrectly thought the whole point of the software service company was to give bidders more peace of mind.

[HRBAKER]

I have always assumed any auction house could (if so inclined) see my max bid, you get fewer surprises that way.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by thehoodedcoder

Won't someone just come out and say yes, that the auction house can see the max bid, without beating around the bush?

Do, none of the action houses want to admit this openly? Maybe, Leon who runs the site, and uses the software can answer this question in a direct yes or no fashion.

I'm not sure why all of a sudden the responses went cold, after he told me I was talking out of my ass.

Kevin

Our B and L SimpleAuctionsite s/w is programmed for us to never be able to see an up-to bid and that has been from day one. Same with our previous provider. NOT ALL auction houses that use their s/w can see the max bids. Only if the AH asks or allows it, can it be done.

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by Leon

Our B and L SimpleAuctionsite s/w is programmed for us to never be able to see an up-to bid and that has been from day one. Same with our previous provider. NOT ALL auction houses that use their s/w can see the max bids. Only if the AH asks or allows it, can it be done.

I'm comfortable with that.

[irishdenny]

Originally Posted by thehoodedcoder

By that same logic, then sponsors shouldn't drop sports stars when they do things that hurt their image? After all, they are just a company and bear no burden from who or what their sponsored individuals do in their personal time? Right?

Lets take it even a step further. What if the software had the ability to install malware to your computer to serve advertising. It is only on the auction house to determine if they want to infect your computer with unwanted advertising. It is offered in the auction software, but the auction house gets to chose whether they use it or not? Does that sound like a good idea? I mean, its the responsibility of the auction house on what they do, and who they do business with after all right?

Lets be realistic here. The auction house software provider has a responsibility to not provide options which so easily promote unethical behavior and have absolutely no real useful business value. Not only that, knowing that fraud is being committed with your software and doing nothing about it is negligent in regards to the law. Most businesses wouldn't want this burden and unnecessary risk looming over their business.

Kevin

Hey there Kevin,

With All Do Sincerity... Your an IT Guy! You seem to know the business & what the Shoulds & Shouldn'ts Should Be of an Online Auction House... Sooo, Why don't You Start up a Business that will keep us All Happy ;- )

Or... Maybe You could compile Your Due Diligence into a Blog website informing us All to whom these Scamming Auction Site's are? It would be more helpful than bitchin' about it... or getting us to agree with You.

I'm not sayin' that your right or wrong...

Just Sayin'... 2 more pennies...

Leon, You're point Only made me self reflect on How I Don't Want To Be That Uncle! And You Reminded me of my Lacking Area of "Push uP Therapy".

uP... Down..., uP... Down..., uP... Down......

[sports-rings]

Originally Posted by Leon View Post
Our B and L SimpleAuctionsite s/w is programmed for us to never be able to see an up-to bid and that has been from day one. Same with our previous provider. NOT ALL auction houses that use their s/w can see the max bids. Only if the AH asks or allows it, can it be done.

Glad to hear that, thanks Leon!

[thehoodedcoder]

Originally Posted by Leon

Our B and L SimpleAuctionsite s/w is programmed for us to never be able to see an up-to bid and that has been from day one. Same with our previous provider. NOT ALL auction houses that use their s/w can see the max bids. Only if the AH asks or allows it, can it be done.

Originally Posted by Leon

Our B and L SimpleAuctionsite s/w is programmed for us to never be able to see an up-to bid and that has been from day one. Same with our previous provider. NOT ALL auction houses that use their s/w can see the max bids. Only if the AH asks or allows it, can it be done.

Ok. Great. I never, once said you did look at max bids nor anyone else. I simply said it concretely does exist. I'm glad to hear you confirm this though.

I wonder to what extent this might be utilized. Maybe Bob or someone else can give us an indication as to the number of houses that have it?

Kevin

[Mikehealer]

Why don't you ask each auction house that uses the software?
Seems pretty simple.

[Exhibitman]

This is a silly argument. There are any number of ways I can arrange to manipulate an auction that do not involve software. The sellers on eBay do not see the max bids left and certainly do not control the code, yet shilling is rampant. As an auctioneer in this day and age of Federal investigations into auction house fraud you would have to be an idiot to utilize an easily traced mechanism to manipulate the outcomes.

It always comes down to integrity. The names that aren't associated with bad acts never seem to change, do they? If you don't trust the AH, don't leave a max bid!

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

This is a silly argument. There are any number of ways I can arrange to manipulate an auction that do not involve software. The sellers on eBay do not see the max bids left and certainly do not control the code, yet shilling is rampant. As an auctioneer in this day and age of Federal investigations into auction house fraud you would have to be an idiot to utilize an easily traced mechanism to manipulate the outcomes.



It always comes down to integrity. The names that aren't associated with bad acts never seem to change, do they? If you don't trust the AH, don't leave a max bid!

+1

[Leon]

Originally Posted by thehoodedcoder

Ok. Great. I never, once said you did look at max bids nor anyone else. I simply said it concretely does exist. I'm glad to hear you confirm this though.

Kevin

NO, it doesn't concretely exist.
Again, I just feel you are being divisive, as usual. The s/w has the ability to be programmed, by the provider only, to do whatever an auction house wants. It DOES NOT exist with the B and L software. I just want to set the record straight as much as you continue to try to contort it. You are continually barking up the wrong tree. Ask the auction houses, not the provider.

And if I were an auction house and got asked a question by someone such as yourself, a hacker-wannabe, I would completely disregard you or ban you from my auctions. You really are just a trouble maker imo.....

I want to add, I think it is 100% permissible to question just about anything at any time. But there can become a time when that questioning becomes abusive. All of the answers have been given at this point. To continue questioning the same thing, to me, is badgering.

[Lordstan]

I'm not sure what the big deal is. Leon answered the OP's first 2 questions in post 2 by referring him to the owner of the software, who is a a very active member of Net54, and answered Mike's follow up question about AH's seeing ceiling bids in post 4. He was pretty clear that it was an option of the software and that you had to check with the specific AH in question as to whether they could or not. No topic was being avoided.

Secondly, IMHO it is not incumbent on the software provider to prevent shady business practices. Breaking a law, perhaps, but even then I think it's a tricky call. Do you hold Microsoft, Apple, or Goolge responsible because people look at child porn or learn how to build bombs using their browsers? I just don't think it's as simple as that. Plus, while I am not a lawyer, I'm not aware that seeing a person's max bid is against any law.

Bad people will find a way to do bad things in all aspects of life. It is up to the consumer to find out the rules and reputation of anyone they are spending their money with and determine if they are willing to deal with them or not. Why would anyone assume that auction houses can't see their ceiling bids? Considering how many trackers are on all these websites we frequent, I always assume that the websites I use can see pretty much whatever they want. If I have a specific question or concern, I ask. If I'm not satisfied with the answer I don't use their services.

I think it comes down to this, if you don't like the way simpleauctionsite software, or any other auctions software for that matter, is used by a specific AH, don't bid in their auctions.

Mark V

[thehoodedcoder]

Originally Posted by Leon

And if I were an auction house and got asked a question by someone such as yourself, a hacker-wannabe, I would completely disregard you or ban you from my auctions. You really are just a trouble maker imo.....

Wouldn't take much more than a wanna-be, I could tell you that much. Kids know how to exploit websites now a days. It's pretty self explanatory stuff any more.

I mean how hard is it to exploit a vbulletin 3.8.1 installation from 2009? Anyone can do that sort of thing. Surely you would have to better than a wannabe to do something like that wouldn't you?

I find it better to be on the side of know how, than ignorance. Wouldn't you agree with that?

Kevin

[Leon]

Originally Posted by thehoodedcoder

Wouldn't take much more than a wanna-be, I could tell you that much. Kids know how to exploit websites now a days. It's pretty self explanatory stuff any more.

I mean how hard is it to exploit a vbulletin 3.8.1 installation from 2009? Anyone can do that sort of thing. Surely you would have to better than a wannabe to do something like that wouldn't you?

I find it better to be on the side of know how, than ignorance. Wouldn't you agree with that?

Kevin

I always want to expose fraud, security issues and bad activity in the hobby. Historically speaking, this site's members are good at that. I believe shining a light on things is much better than keeping them in the dark. I believe your intentions might be in the right place (not positive) but since you have all the answers you have asked for, at this point, a slightly different path on your journey would seem prudent. It is up to the AH's how they conduct their business. If I had less options with my provider I might not use them. It is not up to them to police the hobby. They need to provide easy to use, reliable and safe software and they do.

[glchen]

Personally I see the OPs point. If there's something in the hobby that has been abused in the past, why even give AH's that option? If eBay said they'd give the option to sellers to see their bidders max bids, there would be an uproar.

[t206hound]

Originally Posted by Leon

NO, it doesn't concretely exist.
Again, I just feel you are being divisive, as usual. The s/w has the ability to be programmed, by the provider only, to do whatever an auction house wants. It DOES NOT exist with the B and L software.

I'd hazard to guess that there is not a separate version of software (code) for each client of SAS. It's a very high probability that there is just specific configuration for each client that controls the look/feel and feature set required by that client. In Leon's statement "the s/w has the ability to be programmed" more accurately should read "the s/w has the ability to be configured." There is a subtle, but important, distinction.

If that is the case, then the software (code) is the same regardless of the configuration. Therefore, there is deployed code that does allow for a user (administrator as it was mentioned) to see max bids. While configuration at the client level may not allow that feature to be utilized, it still exists. By virtue of it existing, it does leave open the possibility of misuse by an administrator, someone who is able to obtain administrative credentials, or someone who "hacks" the site to provide the information that would otherwise not be exposed.

I'm guessing that this is Kevin's concern.

[thehoodedcoder]

Ding Ding Ding.

Exactly.

Kevin

[bobfreedman]

Originally Posted by t206hound

I'd hazard to guess that there is not a separate version of software (code) for each client of SAS. It's a very high probability that there is just specific configuration for each client that controls the look/feel and feature set required by that client. In Leon's statement "the s/w has the ability to be programmed" more accurately should read "the s/w has the ability to be configured." There is a subtle, but important, distinction.

If that is the case, then the software (code) is the same regardless of the configuration. Therefore, there is deployed code that does allow for a user (administrator as it was mentioned) to see max bids. While configuration at the client level may not allow that feature to be utilized, it still exists. By virtue of it existing, it does leave open the possibility of misuse by an administrator, someone who is able to obtain administrative credentials, or someone who "hacks" the site to provide the information that would otherwise not be exposed.

I'm guessing that this is Kevin's concern.

The auction house administrators CAN NOT turn on and off the ability to see the max bids. Only one person in our in our entire company can do that and he is the other owner in the company.

In summary, Kevin has no knowledge of any inner workings of our software and any claims otherwise are lies and, no one except one of the owners in the company has the ability to turn on and off the ability in seeing the max bids.

[Peter_Spaeth]

But is it a fact that some auction houses ask to have the ability to see max bids?

[bobfreedman]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

But is it a fact that some auction houses ask to have the ability to see max bids?

No, it is not a fact, no one has ever asked us to see the max bids, all have asked not to see the max bids.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bobfreedman

No, it is not a fact, no one has ever asked us to see the max bids, all have asked not to see the max bids.

Then nobody should have to stay up till all ungodly hours of the morning. Put it your max bid and go to bed!!

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by bobfreedman

No, it is not a fact, no one has ever asked us to see the max bids, all have asked not to see the max bids.

This is great to hear. Thank you for posting.

[slipk1068]

Originally Posted by bobfreedman

No, it is not a fact, no one has ever asked us to see the max bids, all have asked not to see the max bids.

Awesome to hear that. I can't imagine any constructive reason to see max bids. It shouldn't even be an option. Thanks so much for making us feel safer about bidding.

[glchen]

Originally Posted by bobfreedman

No, it is not a fact, no one has ever asked us to see the max bids, all have asked not to see the max bids.

I think this is what everyone was looking for.

[Peter_Spaeth]

So shill bidding is now dead, except on ebay? This is great to hear. I also assume auction houses don't have people's IDs and passwords.

[calvindog]

Maybe you weren't listening, Peter. We've already received what everyone was looking for.

[Sean1125]

Originally Posted by bobfreedman

No, it is not a fact, no one has ever asked us to see the max bids, all have asked not to see the max bids.

I personally find this very, very hard to believe.

Sean

[Leon]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Maybe you weren't listening, Peter. We've already received what everyone was looking for.

Yes, I love to be told what I am looking for . On one note, auction houses have id's......we have to. B & L can't see passwords nor would we want to.

Even on Net54baseball I can't see passwords. One other thing, even if someone were to hack Net54baseball all they could hope to get are email addresses. There is nothing else to even get. If someone wants my email address, and they aren't a spammer, I have no issue giving it to them. I don't give out any of our members info unless there is good reason....and almost never would give a phone number out.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Maybe you weren't listening, Peter. We've already received what everyone was looking for.

Oh, sorry, you're right. I must learn to accept all assurances at face value.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vMUvCYTtmM&feature=kp

[Sean1125]

Bob,

Is the 'reveal' max bid feature on or off by default?