Bout to pull the trigger...

[davetruth]

Alright fellas..I'm about to pull the trigger on this. Any thoughts? Does any thing look outta sorts? Let me know. This is my biggest card purchase ever. Just want to be on the safe side.

[GKreindler]

Dave,

I can't comment on anything other than aesthetics here, but man, that's a gorgeous cars. I've always loved that image, especially the color. This will be one hell of a piece to add to your collection.

Someday, I'm gonna paint that damn pose, too.

Good luck with it!

Graig

[davetruth]

Yeah it looks sweeeeett. just want to make sure it's not too good to be true....no one has any insight on this for me??????

[Bicem]

You really want to spend that much more for an 8?

[davetruth]

Originally Posted by Bicem

You really want to spend that much more for an 8?

....Not sure what you mean... I don't have this card... and I am getting it for a good deal. Just want to make sure it looks legit before I take the plunge.

[Bicem]

Why not buy a great looking 5 or 6 and save the cash to buy other cool things? Then you don't have to worry (as much) about the card being altered, or cleaned up, etc since you'll have less invested in the grade.

[davetruth]

I hear what you are saying...but I am getting this for a really good price. I am paying via paypal invoice so I feel secure about it- I can return it and get my money if there is anything funny with the card you know.

[Bicem]

Well good luck, the card looks fine to me but I'm always very suspicious of really high grade.

[Rollingstone206]

...

[davetruth]

lol not craigslist... but listen here's the deal: worst case scenario- the card is not right. I return it for a full refund via paypal. Best case scenario- I score a really awesome card at a a great price. To me it seems like little risk high reward. At the end of the day, I know that I have to feel 100 percent right about it before I do it. The holder looks good, the card looks good, everything checks out..and I called paypal and they said I'm good if anything goes awry with the purchase. I know that it is possible dude could send me a reprint in the holder. I'm covered through paypal. Card could be altered or whatever- I'm covered through paypal. Bicem you said you would be suspicious of a high grade..is there anything i'm missing?

[e107collector]

Originally Posted by davetruth

Bicem you said you would be suspicious of a high grade..is there anything i'm missing?

Generally speaking, some cards, not all, that grade high may have been professionally altered in the past. This board has seen it's fair share over the years.

Tony

[Peter_Spaeth]

hOW good a price? If its too good to be true then there is a problem.

[the 'stache]

Dave,

I'm with Peter on this one.

Here's the exact same DiMaggio you're looking to buy:

http://www.robertedwardauctions.com/.../2012/491.html

It sold in the 2012 Robert Edwards auction for $7,100.

You need to ask the person offering to sell this card how they came to own it.

[davetruth]

honestly it could be too good to be true...it is a really good deal. So I guess when it comes to even graded cards, don't buy online unless you know the dealer is a given. But hypothetically you have the worry of getting altered cards in any deal, correct?. If the DiMaggio in question has been graded by SGC, and they missed the card being altered, where does that leave me as a buyer? There is a level of faith in any transaction, the fact that I have the paypal protection in my mind seems like it be a shot worth taking. Couldn't I just send the card in have it looked at, and have SGC confirm the grade?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Pass. The card in the scan may not be the one you get. Common scam.

[davetruth]

After seeing that auction i'm starting to feel iffy on it. But that's why I come to this board. I need to be educated. I wouldn't want to do something like this with out some help. I feel like I have some knowledge about cards, but this one might be a little out of my league. Thanks for all the help thus far. "In the multitude of counselors, there is wisdom"

[Peter_Spaeth]

Think. Why would he sell that killer card to you at some cut rate price? NO legit reason. Who is the seller. References?

[Rollingstone206]

...

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by davetruth

honestly it could be too good to be true...it is a really good deal. So I guess when it comes to even graded cards, don't buy online unless you know the dealer is a given. But hypothetically you have the worry of getting altered cards in any deal, correct?. If the DiMaggio in question has been graded by SGC, and they missed the card being altered, where does that leave me as a buyer? There is a level of faith in any transaction, the fact that I have the paypal protection in my mind seems like it be a shot worth taking. Couldn't I just send the card in have it looked at, and have SGC confirm the grade?

Well, I don't buy online unless I know the seller is reputable.

I don't see any evidence of the card in the picture you've provided being altered. The question here is "does the seller have the card in question"?

If this is somebody you're doing business with online, ask the seller to take a few other pictures of the card with them holding it, or their name/Ebay id in the picture with the card. If the seller is legit, they should have no problem doing this. If the seller is trying to scam you, they'll back out somehow.

[davetruth]

guys...you are going to toast me... please be easy on me. lol. He wanted $2500. *anticipating incoming flaming arrows* AGAIN, the ONLY reason I was going to give it a shot was because of the paypal protection. I would never, ever do something like this, even on a much lower scale, without covering my bases. Sorry if I come off like an idiot. But I was trying to do my homework. Hence why I inquired here. Again, I know I have to stick to the old adage, "if it looks to good to be true, then it probably is".

[Peter_Spaeth]

Lol. Glad you asked. Be careful out there.

[gregr2]

Good thing you asked here, it's a scam. No reason someone would pay $7100 and then offer it to you for $2500.

[gregr2]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Lol. Glad you asked. Be careful out there.

+1

[Orioles1954]

A buddy of mine paid 8 grand for a 1958 Topps Ted Williams PSA 10. Sent money through paypal, seller sent a package with delivery confirmation and return receipt. I was there when he opened the package and got two Upper Deck golf cards. Paypal wouldn't do anything about it because of the return receipt. The seller's address turned out to be fake and the scan was stolen. Looks very much like the case you're dealing with here.

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Think. Why would he sell that killer card to you at some cut rate price? NO legit reason. Who is the seller. References?

Exactly.

We know the card being offered was sold by a reputable auction house within the last two years. We do not know what has happened to the card since then, as Card Target does not track 1941 Play Ball yet.

However, I did not see this card being sold on Ebay. So, that means either the seller acquired it through another auction house, or a private transaction. Either way, if you're being offered the card at a "great price", I'm wondering why you're getting such a great deal.

It's like somebody having a 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle PSA 4, and offering it on Ebay for $5,000. Why are they offering a card for a fraction of the card's worth?

[Orioles1954]

Originally Posted by the 'stache

Exactly.

We know the card being offered was sold by a reputable auction house within the last two years. We do not know what has happened to the card since then, as Card Target does not track 1941 Play Ball yet.

However, I did not see this card being sold on Ebay. So, that means either the seller acquired it through another auction house, or a private transaction. Either way, if you're being offered the card at a "great price", I'm wondering why you're getting such a great deal.

It's like somebody having a 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle PSA 4, and offering it on Ebay for $5,000. Why are they offering a card for a fraction of the card's worth?

You and I both know the answer. They either stole the card or stole the scan. They are waiting for the $2500 and will send him an empty package with a return receipt....there goes your paypal protection.

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Lol. Glad you asked. Be careful out there.

"Let's be careful out there."

[Peter_Spaeth]

Bill, exactly what i had in mind.

[davetruth]

Thanks guys, for real. Everything adds up to me passing on this one. I mean hey sometimes you can get lucky on something...but you have to be realistic. The facts don't add up. That's why I came here. You all have helped greatly. Thanks a lot.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by davetruth

Thanks guys, for real. Everything adds up to me passing on this one. I mean hey sometimes you can get lucky on something...but you have to be realistic. The facts don't add up. That's why I came here. You all have helped greatly. Thanks a lot.

So, where did you find this "deal"? And who is the seller?

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by Orioles1954

You and I both know the answer. They either stole the card or stole the scan. They are waiting for the $2500 and will send him an empty package with a return receipt....there goes your paypal protection.

I know. I'm just trying to demonstrate the thinking process that Dave should be employing.

Dave, when buying expensive cards, always buy from a reputable dealer. Somebody that deals in vintage and pre-war cards on a regular basis, and has an good reputation.

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Bill, exactly what i had in mind.

I figured as much.

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by davetruth

Thanks guys, for real. Everything adds up to me passing on this one. I mean hey sometimes you can get lucky on something...but you have to be realistic. The facts don't add up. That's why I came here. You all have helped greatly. Thanks a lot.

Happy to help, Dave.

One more thing. Going back to what Jeff said: why buy an 8? You could find a 7 (or even a 6) that looks just as nice, and you'll pay a hell of a lot less money for it. With the money you save, you could buy another really nice card (or two).

There's one thing you'll learn as you collect more. Buy the card, not the slab. Remember, you're paying for somebody else's opinion when you buy a graded card. There's great value to be found in cards if you look beyond that number on the flip. There are 6s that look better than 7s. There are 7s that look way better than 8s. Develop your eye.

BTW, don't ever feel stupid asking for help. That's why this forum is here. It's not only a place to share our collections, and to buy and sell cards safely. Net 54 is a great source of education. You didn't feel completely comfortable with this transaction. That's a good thing. That means your instincts were correct. You're already headed in the right direction.

[egbeachley]

Question: If Paypal protection can be used if the card is fake, then why does having a Return Receipt make a difference?

[Rollingstone206]

...

[Rollingstone206]

...

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by Rollingstone206

Maybe the seller could find him a 7 for $1250 then he could get another deal for $1250

Why would you be rolling your eyes over this?

[T206Collector]

Two additional things about this entire thread don't add up:

1. The photos of the card were taken by a camera phone. If you were going to steal a scan, wouldn't you just take the REA scan? Someone has the card in hand and is taking mediocre pics of it for some reason.

2. The original poster won't "out" the seller. Why not? I'm guessing the reason runs deeper than simple etiquette/empathy for the seller.

Just noticed a prior post by the original poster. I'm guessing this is related to that bogus European website that has been mentioned here before (years ago):

"I have a chance to buy some SGC graded cards from an international seller (Europe). I would pay via paypal invoice. I contacted Paypal and they said worst case scenario I would have to open a case if 1. I didn't receive the item or 2. It was not as described. Just wondering if I should take the chance..it seems like a chance that could really pay off, worse case scenario I have to wait to get my money returned if (God forbid) things didn't go smoothly. I just have some hesitation about it because of their location. I have done some research on the seller and also the cards in question and am confident that if I got the cards being pictured then I would be good, as they look legit (along with the holders). Is this something you might typically stay away from, or does the "protection" from Paypal make this a risk worth taking? I know that there are numerous things to be aware of here. Thanks in advance for you help."

[jcmtiger]

Originally Posted by davetruth

Alright fellas..I'm about to pull the trigger on this. Any thoughts? Does any thing look outta sorts? Let me know. This is my biggest card purchase ever. Just want to be on the safe side.

Unfortunately the days of deals are over, I bought many cards for great deals in the 1970's and 1980's. Those days were great, but they are gone forever.

Joe

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

Originally Posted by Orioles1954

A buddy of mine paid 8 grand for a 1958 Topps Ted Williams PSA 10. Sent money through paypal, seller sent a package with delivery confirmation and return receipt. I was there when he opened the package and got two Upper Deck golf cards. Paypal wouldn't do anything about it because of the return receipt. The seller's address turned out to be fake and the scan was stolen. Looks very much like the case you're dealing with here.

This is one of the worst stories I have ever heard. I am shocked that Paypal did not stand behind the guarantee. Do you they expect us to all take videos of the box being opened?

[davetruth]

egbeachley posted :Question: If Paypal protection can be used if the card is fake, then why does having a Return Receipt make a difference?

I am wondering the same thing. Seems like any way you slice it the buyer could be screwed..

T206 collector - I got off the comp last nite before I could post more info of the site. It was antiques.com. And yes...the seller is in Russia. Please see my previous posts as to why I would even think that this was worth asking about (paypal protection)

Also you can see that the pics the guy has were taken with a phone (his reflection is seen in both pics lol) and not stolen from the auction website. But still super duper shady nonetheless. I know.

[Jay Wolt]

Originally Posted by davetruth

And yes...the seller is in Russia.

From Russia? Didn't know that was a hotbed for vintage cards.
The only thing I buy from Russia is vodka

[Iron Horse]

Maybe the card was stolen somehow in a previous scam or something. Now it is being offered for sale at a discount outside the US since the card is stolen??
Guess only the original owner of that card can tell if it was stolen/scammed away at some point.

I would like to also know why PayPal did not protect the buyer as mentioned before just because the mail was registered???

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by davetruth

And yes...the seller is in Russia.

The odds of a deal from Russia being legitimate are only slightly better than being the lone beneficiary of a Nigerian prince's fortune.

[calvindog]

Gee, this was a tough scam to spot.

[Bicem]

Probably should have mentioned the Russia thing in post #1.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

The odds of a deal from Russia being legitimate are only slightly better than being the lone beneficiary of a Nigerian prince's fortune.

No disPutin that.

[Paul S]

From Russia Without Love

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Bicem

Probably should have mentioned the Russia thing in post #1.

That would have been the first and last post of the thread.

[DerekD]

This card sold on ebay 5 times between August and October last year. The scans on the first post were used on the 1st and 3rd auctions.

10/14/13 eBay Image jcl1336 v***b 28 $5,200.00
10/3/13 eBay Image jcl1336 u***e 29 $6,100.00
9/10/13 eBay Image d-drodeo j***a 8 $5,629.00
9/7/13 eBay Image d-drodeo o***c BIN $7,500.00
8/15/13 eBay Image d-drodeo v***b 22 $6,599.99