Are 128 bid retractions a lot?

[frankbmd]

Just wondering.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/T206-Roger-B...item58af81214b

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

It's all relative.

[celoknob]

....but only 70 this month.

[frankbmd]

Trending upward

[tiger8mush]

If I understand correctly, the seller receives an email from eBay when a bid is retracted. Wouldn't most sellers ban the bidder after, say, two retractions? Three? Ten? Fifty?

[Bocabirdman]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

Trending upward

He is on the Adrian Daily Post Plan

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by tiger8mush

If I understand correctly, the seller receives an email from eBay when a bid is retracted. Wouldn't most sellers ban the bidder after, say, two retractions? Three? Ten? Fifty?

Maybe none were on Rick's items despite the fact that 44 percent of his bidding activity (12475 total bids on 2538 items) were with Rick.

[scotgreb]

I actually called eBay about that bidder in that specific auction. I was politely told they don't give a $hit.

Scott

[smtjoy]

Funny with only (550) feedback but managed to have 12475 bids and 70 retractions this month alone. Great stuff!

[MyGuyTy]

Originally Posted by scotgreb

I actually called eBay about that bidder in that specific auction. I was politely told they don't give a $hit.

Scott

Yep, pretty much what you're gonna get. Ebay could honestly care less because of potential gains. Unfortunately shilling is the name of the game in this hobby, from Ebay to AHs.....money talks and BS walks, and we all know that "money" has been talking as it relates to this corrupt hobby since the major boom in the 80's. Whenever you combine the human race with an opportunity to make money and cause corruption.....things get stupid REAL fast.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by tiger8mush

If I understand correctly, the seller receives an email from eBay when a bid is retracted. Wouldn't most sellers ban the bidder after, say, two retractions? Three? Ten? Fifty?

Rick is vigilant.

[frankbmd]

In the past 30 days this bidder has been averaging one bid every 3-4 minutes around the clock (that's 24/7). Do the math 12475 bids in 30 days.

So he must either:

A - have deep pockets

B - want a whole lot of stuff

C - have a lucrative day job that doesn't require any time commitment

D - all of the above

E - other (Fill in the blank ___________________________)

[tschock]

Here's what I don't understand and since there are a few lawyers here, maybe they can help. If there can be a pattern shown that there was shilling going on and it was brought to ebay's attention, and if they did nothing about it, couldn't they be considered complicit in that activity? And even more so if this was an ongoing activity across a number of sellers.

I do understand that actual shilling would have to be provable, which is probably the major "rub". But it seems that if enough patterns can be established to bring nefarious activities into question, and ebay actually has better resources to track this (since actually know who the bidders are), it would be in their best interest to crack down harder on bid retractions of this nature. Or are they banking on the assumption that shilling would be extremely difficult to prove?

[lharri3600]

Originally Posted by tschock

Here's what I don't understand and since there are a few lawyers here, maybe they can help. If there can be a pattern shown that there was shilling going on and it was brought to ebay's attention, and if they did nothing about it, couldn't they be considered complicit in that activity? And even more so if this was an ongoing activity across a number of sellers.

I do understand that actual shilling would have to be provable, which is probably the major "rub". But it seems that if enough patterns can be established to bring nefarious activities into question, and ebay actually has better resources to track this (since actually know who the bidders are), it would be in their best interest to crack down harder on bid retractions of this nature. Or are they banking on the assumption that shilling would be extremely difficult to prove?

What I have learned about Ebay is this, if the bids don't come from the same computer, pad, or whatever device is used. They will not do anything. Patterns don't matter with them.

[auggiedoggy]

Seems a tad excessive.

[D.P.Johnson]

You guys are gonna feel bad when you find out this bidder is blind in one eye and types with his toes...

[midwaylandscaping]

I would think one retraction is one too many.

[tschock]

Originally Posted by lharri3600

What I have learned about Ebay is this, if the bids don't come from the same computer, pad, or whatever device is used. They will not do anything. Patterns don't matter with them.

I'm confused on your statement, or maybe just the purpose of it as it relates to my question. So if the bids come from the same device, they might do something? Because I find it highly unlikely that someone with 128 bid retractions used 128 different devices.

[Paul S]

Originally Posted by tschock

I'm confused on your statement, or maybe just the purpose of it as it relates to my question. So if the bids come from the same device, they might do something? Because I find it highly unlikely that someone with 128 bid retractions used 128 different devices.

That was also my concern. Maybe the seller has a lot of friends?

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by tschock

I'm confused on your statement, or maybe just the purpose of it as it relates to my question. So if the bids come from the same device, they might do something? Because I find it highly unlikely that someone with 128 bid retractions used 128 different devices.

He probably means that the bids come from the same computer as the seller.

[6-4-3memorabilia]

I have been on ebay since 2002 and can only remember 1 time retracting a bid in the hundreds of things I won and thousands of things I have bid on

[tschock]

Originally Posted by 4815162342

He probably means that the bids come from the same computer as the seller.

Duh. Makes perfect sense now.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by lharri3600

What I have learned about Ebay is this, if the bids don't come from the same computer, pad, or whatever device is used. They will not do anything. Patterns don't matter with them.

Oh, yes they will: they will rewrite their software to close the loophole that they think you used to collect the data on the bidder. That's what they did when they made it impossible to track bidders by name in the wake of the last shilling blow-up. I predict that a year from now there won't be any bidding activity data visible to anyone except the seller, just like it is at a real auction house.

[slipk1068]

I am sure this stuff goes on at the real auction houses. We just can't see it, so we have no problem with it.

I blame Ebay as much if not more than the Probesteins of the world.

[t206hof]

Shilling is wrong and it should be stopped, but ebay will never do anything about it. The only way to hurt the guilty parties is not to overpay. I repeat do not overpay, if you do you are playing directly into there hands. I learned a long time ago I would just as soon not have the cards if I pay more than they are worth in my mind. If I do it leaves a bitter taste in my mouth.

[earlywynnfan]

Originally Posted by t206hof

Shilling is wrong and it should be stopped, but ebay will never do anything about it. The only way to hurt the guilty parties is not to overpay. I repeat do not overpay, if you do you are playing directly into there hands. I learned a long time ago I would just as soon not have the cards if I pay more than they are worth in my mind. If I do it leaves a bitter taste in my mouth.

I have to say RunScott made the best point about this in another thread: If you've made up your mind that the card is worth $100, but if the last $50 is because you've been shilled, you are paying $50 more than the card is worth!! Many seem to think that's OK, and that's their choice. But I agree with Scott that it seems crazy. (Not saying many of the things I do don't seem crazy, like spending hundreds to thousands of dollars on $10 baseballs with scribbles on them!)

Ken

[slipk1068]

Originally Posted by earlywynnfan

I have to say RunScott made the best point about this in another thread: If you've made up your mind that the card is worth $100, but if the last $50 is because you've been shilled, you are paying $50 more than the card is worth!! Many seem to think that's OK, and that's their choice. But I agree with Scott that it seems crazy. (Not saying many of the things I do don't seem crazy, like spending hundreds to thousands of dollars on $10 baseballs with scribbles on them!)

Ken

Exactly. Shilling is built into all the prices we believe are fair and reasonable prices. We all overpay on everything we buy.

The auction houses hide it. Nobody complains because we don't see it.

Ebay condones it because it increases their profits. That is all Ebay cares about.

Many of us punish Probestein and PWCC by not bidding because we feel it is wrong that they clearly do nothing and likely engage in it themselves.

My question for all of the Probestein and PWCC haters (me included) is that shouldn't we also be boycotting Ebay?

I can't wait to see a class action lawsuit against Ebay. That will be a happy day for me.

[ls7plus]

Originally Posted by t206hof

Shilling is wrong and it should be stopped, but ebay will never do anything about it. The only way to hurt the guilty parties is not to overpay. I repeat do not overpay, if you do you are playing directly into there hands. I learned a long time ago I would just as soon not have the cards if I pay more than they are worth in my mind. If I do it leaves a bitter taste in my mouth.

+1. While I understand the logic that when shilling occurs you are being scammed out of the benefit of a bargain you otherwise would have had, my position is that I will decide how much a given item is worth to me, and I won't chase it for more than that.

Best to all,

Larry