Bye

[Tomman1961]

To those I like to speak with - goodbye. To others, well- ---

[edjs]

We never talked, but I did read of your difficulties. I truly hope the best for you, and will keep you in my prayers. God Bless.

Ed

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Tomman1961

To those I like to speak with - goodbye. To others, well- ---

Why would you leave the boards just because you sold your cards? So you lost your cards, did you lose your passion for cards too? Maybe it's just me, but I don't get it.

[barrysloate]

Agreed. I haven't collected baseball memorabilia in many years but still enjoy reading the board and occasionally posting. You don't need a collection to hang around here.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Posts: 6,450

Occasionally posting?

[Leon]

I think it might have been some A-holes with predatory PMs concerning his cards. Sometimes folks should think before they act like effing vultures. There is a time and place for everything and this wasn't the time for going for the jugular....LL

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Leon

I think it might have been some A-holes with predatory PMs concerning his cards. Sometimes folks should think before they act like effing vultures. There is a time and place for everything and this wasn't the time for going for the jugular....LL

That's a shame. Unfortunately that happens way too much - preying on the vulnerable. Now I understand his decision. Thanks for shedding some light on the situation.

[gregr2]

Originally Posted by Leon

I think it might have been some A-holes with predatory PMs concerning his cards. Sometimes folks should think before they act like effing vultures. There is a time and place for everything and this wasn't the time for going for the jugular....LL

Sad that we have some A-holes that would do that on this board.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Leon

I think it might have been some A-holes with predatory PMs concerning his cards. Sometimes folks should think before they act like effing vultures. There is a time and place for everything and this wasn't the time for going for the jugular....LL

Man, that's shameful.

[Sean1125]

I sympathized and offered him a 1% consignment rate and free advice if he wanted it.

I hope I was not one of the predatory ones

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Sean1125

I sympathized and offered him a 1% consignment rate and free advice if he wanted it.

I hope I was not one of the predatory ones

Hopefully he wouldn't take that message that way. Seems you were trying to help. I don't think that was the case with quite a few others. I told him that with around 5500 members there are bound to be some a-holes. Just a really bad time for the gentleman. I can't blame him for being pissed off.. It reflects poorly on our board too. So much is good but then this kind of stuff happens (as I shake my head).

[Sean1125]

Originally Posted by Leon

Hopefully he wouldn't take that message that way. Seems you were trying to help. I don't think that was the case with quite a few others. I told him that with around 5500 members there are bound to be some a-holes. Just a really bad time for the gentleman. I can't blame him for being pissed off.. It reflects poorly on our board too. So much is good but then this kind of stuff happens (as I shake my head).

I will drink to that

[mrvster]

I'm not sure if this would help.....but maybe we can send the guy a few cards???.....I know we have tried to do similar acts of kindness that failed in the past, but maybe a few cards he likes to collect arriving in the mail might help rid the bad taste???

just a thought...

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by Leon

I think it might have been some A-holes with predatory PMs concerning his cards. Sometimes folks should think before they act like effing vultures. There is a time and place for everything and this wasn't the time for going for the jugular....LL

That's just shameful.

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

If someone tried to be a predator then you are a f*cking a$$hole!

[slipk1068]

Originally Posted by Leon

I think it might have been some A-holes with predatory PMs concerning his cards. Sometimes folks should think before they act like effing vultures. There is a time and place for everything and this wasn't the time for going for the jugular....LL

Sad

[ethicsprof]

Originally Posted by slipk1068

Sad

perhaps it is time to add 'cave canem' to caveat emptor as folks come on board
for their first visits.
It is saddest when we hurt those who are suffering the most.

all the best,
barry

[Sean1125]

Originally Posted by ethicsprof

perhaps it is time to add 'cave canem' to caveat emptor as folks come on board
for their first visits.
It is saddest when we hurt those who are suffering the most.

all the best,
barry

I would not so much use the term we as it is likely select individuals, that could likely be named as there are not many people who react to situations as described in the thread.

Going to sleep. I hope the gentlemen feels better in the future - sad story, best of luck, Tom.

Sean

[barrysloate]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Posts: 6,450

Occasionally posting?

Okay, I compulsively post.

I'm in denial.

[BruceinGa]

Tomman, best of luck. I agree with most poster here, there's no need to leave the board permanently.

[slidekellyslide]

Perhaps this kind of behavior could be curbed if names were named? I know that stuff trumps all in this hobby, but this is really beyond the pale.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

Perhaps this kind of behavior could be curbed if names were named? I know that stuff trumps all in this hobby, but this is really beyond the pale.

If the original poster wants to but I doubt he will.. I don't know who any are.

[Republicaninmass]

I initially thought maybe his health to a turn for the worse

[Tomman1961]

Sean1125- Nope - not you.

[1880nonsports]

is awash with regret.
In any event - no telling if it was someone from our community as the board apparently gets plenty of traffic - I'd be remiss however if I didn't step up to echo the sentiments that taking advantage of someone who has opened himself up at a vulnerable moment is reprehensible. It makes me quite sad....

[Jim65]

If we are sure that someone was really trying to take advantage, then that sucks.

Is it possible the OP might have overvalued his cards and didn't like offers he was receiving?

[Tomman1961]

All:
Leon's first post is correct. I had some bad PM's. Cherry picking my collection. sean 1125-no not you. The bad out numbered the good at one point. One day I did not read the board. Someone offered me to sell the Clemente. I was at my Mom's sorting out insurance policies. Driving her to Social Security office. Finally I get back on and see a PM that this dealer told me I cost him a $15,000 sale because he wanted to buy my Clemente. Sorry-I'm now pissed. Dad is dead. Mom is a nervous wreck, I am unemployed, and this is what you have to say to me?
On the other had, I had many posts to me of condolences. If I share the bad, I must share the great. One of the members had offered to take my family of 4 to dinner. Now, that is a class act. I had to decline as i do not want my issues to burden someone else. I apprecited his act of kindness, and we shared a few PM. Leon knows who he is.
I will continue to be a member. Why? Because - as I told Leon today in a PM- I will ignore the bad PM I get and continue to enjoy this board.
My replies to my "BYE" posting gave me a better insight. Thank you all.

[bn2cardz]

In the thread about planning for the future with my cards I stated that I directed my wife to come to this site. After reading this thread last night with her sitting next to me I specifically told her to ignore any PMs that come to her requesting to buy things. That she would be better off going directly to the forum owner, Leon. I even showed her his info on here and where it stated in his stats that he was the owner. I told her there are many good people but apparently things happen behind the scenes and it would be better to go straight to him.

I have never met Leon and never done a transaction with him (outside of buying from his auction house) and have only done a few messages with him. But I have felt that was the best way to protect her from predatory people IF she found herself in that position. I really never knew it was that bad here.

I did mention that posting on the forum would be fine, but don't trust those people that aren't willing to talk to her within the thread and are only seeking her out through PM to buy everything. I figure if people keep it within the thread it would be quickly pointed out if someone is ripping her off.

[Tomman1961]

JIM65:
Nice to see you are a Mets fan.
I did not receive any offer on any card. I just wanted the opinions from my oroginal post of what to do.. There never was in any of my posts, nor PM, nor my responses to PM about any price on a card.
So, there never was a time when I did not like a price someone offered.
My original post was simple. What would you do. Now it is getting far out of hand.
I have been a serious collector for many years. But if I post what my complete sets are and what I have - well- it will look like an advertisement.
I can eBay anything. I know 3-4 reputable auction houses.
To reiterate- I did not get an offer on anything.

[Jim65]

Originally Posted by Tomman1961

JIM65:
Nice to see you are a Mets fan.
I did not receive any offer on any card. I just wanted the opinions from my oroginal post of what to do.. There never was in any of my posts, nor PM, nor my responses to PM about any price on a card.
So, there never was a time when I did not like a price someone offered.
My original post was simple. What would you do. Now it is getting far out of hand.
I have been a serious collector for many years. But if I post what my complete sets are and what I have - well- it will look like an advertisement.
I can eBay anything. I know 3-4 reputable auction houses.
To reiterate- I did not get an offer on anything.

Fair enough, hope it works out for you.

[ethicsprof]

Originally Posted by Sean1125

I would not so much use the term we as it is likely select individuals, that could likely be named as there are not many people who react to situations as described in the thread.

Going to sleep. I hope the gentlemen feels better in the future - sad story, best of luck, Tom.

Sean

When Leon says 'it reflects poorly on our board too', he wisely sees that
we at Net54 are a community that will be tainted by the few who are part of
the community. Sadly, there are some who have very limited awareness of
the pain of others. There are some who have little awareness of the potential
pain they may be offering to others. Gratefully, there are many who struggle
with the ramifications of what they may be doing at times. You admit that
you fall into this category by sharing with the group your own personal questioning of your offering to the OP. Sometimes our personal questionings or larger struggles after the fact enable us to have larger struggles before the fact---which can result in a higher good at times.
all the best,
barry

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by ethicsprof

When Leon says 'it reflects poorly on our board too', he wisely sees that
we at Net54 are a community that will be tainted by the few who are part of
the community. Sadly, there are some who have very limited awareness of
the pain of others. There are some who have little awareness of the potential
pain they may be offering to others. Gratefully, there are many who struggle
with the ramifications of what they may be doing at times. You admit that
you fall into this category by sharing with the group your own personal questioning of your offering to the OP. Sometimes our personal questionings or larger struggles after the fact enable us to have larger struggles before the fact---which can result in a higher good at times.
all the best,
barry

Barry, that was very well said.

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by Tomman1961

All:
Leon's first post is correct. I had some bad PM's. Cherry picking my collection. sean 1125-no not you. The bad out numbered the good at one point. One day I did not read the board. Someone offered me to sell the Clemente. I was at my Mom's sorting out insurance policies. Driving her to Social Security office. Finally I get back on and see a PM that this dealer told me I cost him a $15,000 sale because he wanted to buy my Clemente. Sorry-I'm now pissed. Dad is dead. Mom is a nervous wreck, I am unemployed, and this is what you have to say to me?
On the other had, I had many posts to me of condolences. If I share the bad, I must share the great. One of the members had offered to take my family of 4 to dinner. Now, that is a class act. I had to decline as i do not want my issues to burden someone else. I apprecited his act of kindness, and we shared a few PM. Leon knows who he is.
I will continue to be a member. Why? Because - as I told Leon today in a PM- I will ignore the bad PM I get and continue to enjoy this board.
My replies to my "BYE" posting gave me a better insight. Thank you all.

This hobby seems to bring out the best in some people, and the worst in others. I'm glad you're staying Tom.

[Peter_Spaeth]

OK I will stick my head on the chopping block, as awful as the circumstances of this are and I am sure we all empathize, if someone posts on a baseball card message board that he is considering selling some nice cards because he needs money and as to at least one indicating he definitely is selling, then I don't see how merely conveying an interest or making a polite inquiry is "predatory." I had assumed people were conveying lowball offers which would have been disgusting. But that doesn't seem to be the case, and indeed it seems nobody made an offer at all.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

OK I will stick my head on the chopping block, as awful as the circumstances of this are and I am sure we all empathize, if someone posts on a baseball card message board that he is considering selling some nice cards because he needs money and as to at least one indicating he definitely is selling, then I don't see how merely conveying an interest or making a polite inquiry is "predatory." I had assumed people were conveying lowball offers which would have been disgusting. But that doesn't seem to be the case, and indeed it seems nobody made an offer at all.

I think it went beyond conveying an interest or making a polite inquiry. From the OPs statement, it sounds like someone made him an offer on the Clemente and when he OP wasn't quick enough to respond, that someone sent him a PM and told him that he cost him a $15K sale as if it were the OPs fault. That's pretty crappy.

At least that's what I infer from his post:

"Leon's first post is correct. I had some bad PM's. Cherry picking my collection. sean 1125-no not you. The bad out numbered the good at one point. One day I did not read the board. Someone offered me to sell the Clemente. I was at my Mom's sorting out insurance policies. Driving her to Social Security office. Finally I get back on and see a PM that this dealer told me I cost him a $15,000 sale because he wanted to buy my Clemente. Sorry-I'm now pissed. Dad is dead. Mom is a nervous wreck, I am unemployed, and this is what you have to say to me?
On the other had, I had many posts to me of condolences. If I share the bad, I must share the great. One of the members had offered to take my family of 4 to dinner. Now, that is a class act. I had to decline as i do not want my issues to burden someone else. I apprecited his act of kindness, and we shared a few PM. Leon knows who he is.
I will continue to be a member. Why? Because - as I told Leon today in a PM- I will ignore the bad PM I get and continue to enjoy this board.
My replies to my "BYE" posting gave me a better insight. Thank you all."

[Peter_Spaeth]

David you have to read. He said:

To reiterate- I did not get an offer on anything. (post 29 last line)

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

David you have to read. He said:

To reiterate- I did not get an offer on anything. (post 29 last line)

Peter,

You're right but, for whatever reason, someone did tell him they cost them a $15,000 sale. Maybe they didn't make an offer and only inquired about the card, but that was still a crappy thing to say considering all the other stuff going on in his life.

[Sean1125]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

OK I will stick my head on the chopping block, as awful as the circumstances of this are and I am sure we all empathize, if someone posts on a baseball card message board that he is considering selling some nice cards because he needs money and as to at least one indicating he definitely is selling, then I don't see how merely conveying an interest or making a polite inquiry is "predatory." I had assumed people were conveying lowball offers which would have been disgusting. But that doesn't seem to be the case, and indeed it seems nobody made an offer at all.

I wanted to make an offer (or help in any way I could), he just said he needed time and I did not hear back again.

I am still willing to make an offer or help in any way I can (Tom, I can offer you insight - it is to your benefit to at least contact me).

Sean

[Leon]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Peter,

You're right but, for whatever reason, someone did tell him they cost them a $15,000 sale. Maybe they didn't make an offer and only inquired about the card, but that was still a crappy thing to say considering all the other stuff going on in his life.

Exactly.

to Peter- If there is any confusion, I was the one that might have first inferred it was some predatory PMs because that is the type of behavior it seemed like, especially given the circumstances. Maybe another word would have been better used, but it's still the general connotation, if not technically correct.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Peter,

You're right but, for whatever reason, someone did tell him they cost them a $15,000 sale. Maybe they didn't make an offer and only inquired about the card, but that was still a crappy thing to say considering all the other stuff going on in his life.

Yes I was not defending that, only what I inferred was probably the general nature of most of the PMs.

[ethicsprof]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

OK I will stick my head on the chopping block, as awful as the circumstances of this are and I am sure we all empathize, if someone posts on a baseball card message board that he is considering selling some nice cards because he needs money and as to at least one indicating he definitely is selling, then I don't see how merely conveying an interest or making a polite inquiry is "predatory." I had assumed people were conveying lowball offers which would have been disgusting. But that doesn't seem to be the case, and indeed it seems nobody made an offer at all.

"...and I am sure we all empathize..."
Your very optimistic anthropology surprises me. Perhaps, I need to pick
up Erik Fromm or you need to pick up Thomas Hobbes---or perhaps both choices are good. I would hope that you are simply referring to the few who
have shown empathy on this thread.
Ps thanks, daryl, for the kind words.
Let me also add that I am pleased that Tom is staying.

all the best, ole buddy
Barry

[Peter_Spaeth]

Barry, I think you are being cynical here. Just because people don't post on threads where people recount unfortunate events doesn't mean they don't feel compassion for the poster. I think most people probably just feel that they don't have anything unique to add to what's already been said and so stay silent.

[ethicsprof]

No cynicism here, Peter. Empathy is a rare and precious 'attribute' of us human
beings. There are certainly proclivities of the self in that direction but often
require much nurturance and practices to effectuate reality in real circumstances. Peter, I suspect it is time to agree to disagree and not take this
thread too far down the philosophical and linguistic highway. Certainly,
offline at some point might well be quite interesting and refreshing.

all the best, ole buddy
barry

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by Sean1125

I am still willing to make an offer or help in any way I can (Tom, I can offer you insight - it is to your benefit to at least contact me).

Sean

Well thank goodness for that Tom at least Sean is still willing to make you an offer and give you insight.....so I guess you have that going for you huh?

I'm with Peter I don't see the big deal he got offers and may have even gotten low ball offers welcome to the hobby...I would just let it roll off your shoulders Tom and keep enjoying what you can of the hobby. Hope all works out for you in the end. Always hate to see folks having bad times.

Cheers,

John

[ls7plus]

Originally Posted by Tomman1961

All:
Leon's first post is correct. I had some bad PM's. Cherry picking my collection. sean 1125-no not you. The bad out numbered the good at one point. One day I did not read the board. Someone offered me to sell the Clemente. I was at my Mom's sorting out insurance policies. Driving her to Social Security office. Finally I get back on and see a PM that this dealer told me I cost him a $15,000 sale because he wanted to buy my Clemente. Sorry-I'm now pissed. Dad is dead. Mom is a nervous wreck, I am unemployed, and this is what you have to say to me?
On the other had, I had many posts to me of condolences. If I share the bad, I must share the great. One of the members had offered to take my family of 4 to dinner. Now, that is a class act. I had to decline as i do not want my issues to burden someone else. I apprecited his act of kindness, and we shared a few PM. Leon knows who he is.
I will continue to be a member. Why? Because - as I told Leon today in a PM- I will ignore the bad PM I get and continue to enjoy this board.
My replies to my "BYE" posting gave me a better insight. Thank you all.

My wife and I have been going through some really tough times too over the last 4years--she lost her $150,000/yr. job, and has remained effectively unemployed; I am an attorney with his own practice, both personal injury and appellate, and our far-right supreme court has virtually eliminated premises liability cases, which has effectively cut my practice revenue by 60%. I also do criminal appellate work, and my Michigan lay clientele always tries to pay no more than 10-20 cents on the dollar of what constitutes an eminently reasonable fee! So I probably have some small idea of what you've been going through--fear, anxiety, frustration and anger. I THEREFORE TRULY AND DEEPLY SYMPATHIZE WITH YOU IN YOUR PLIGHT. LIFE CAN JUST BE SO BRUTAL AT TIMES!

My deepest sympathies, and will keep you in my prayers while wishing you all the best,

Larry

[barrysloate]

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

Well thank goodness for that Tom at least Sean is still willing to make you an offer and give you insight.....so I guess you have that going for you huh?

I'm with Peter I don't see the big deal he got offers and may have even gotten low ball offers welcome to the hobby...I would just let it roll off your shoulders Tom and keep enjoying what you can of the hobby. Hope all works out for you in the end. Always hate to see folks having bad times.

Cheers,

John

Hi John,
I usually agree with you but I am going to respectfully disagree with part of this. I suppose it is alright to make low ball offers, but there is a time and a place for everything. It wouldn't be good form to show up at a funeral and ask the grieving widow what she will be doing with her husband's collection. A decent human being would see that Tom is going through a very difficult time, and might look for a more tactful way to approach him. It's just a matter of good common sense, I guess.

But the guy who was angry because he lost out on a 15K deal is nothing more than hobby pond scum. Who told him he was going to get the card? He never even communicated with Tom. No way to justify that one. You can't write off every rude yahoo and say it's just business.

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Hi John,
I usually agree with you but I am going to respectfully disagree with part of this. I suppose it is alright to make low ball offers, but there is a time and a place for everything. It wouldn't be good form to show up at a funeral and ask the grieving widow what she will be doing with her husband's collection. A decent human being would see that Tom is going through a very difficult time, and might look for a more tactful way to approach him. It's just a matter of good common sense, I guess.

But the guy who was angry because he lost out on a 15K deal is nothing more than hobby pond scum. Who told him he was going to get the card? He never even communicated with Tom. No way to justify that one. You can't write off every rude yahoo and say it's just business.

+1