1975 Topps Mini's Distribution

[jakeinge]

As I find the discussion regarding the distribution of the 1973 Topps set fascinating, what about the 1975 Topps Mini's? Anyone care to chime in on what they know/remember?

Also, how rare are these in relation to the regular 1975 set?

[brewing]

I didn't collect until 1980 but in Michigan where I grew up it was rare to see any cards in the neighborhood that had regular size. To me 1975 mini is normal.


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[Griffins]

From what I'd always read they were distributed in Michigan and Northern California.
However, one big chain (Zody's maybe, or Gemco?) had a distribution center in Nor Cal and from there sent them down to LA. We had them at one store in the San Fernando Valley that I know of.

[ALR-bishop]

My understanding was the same as Anthony's but no personal experience. I put my set together at a later date

[Jim65]

I bought Mini packs in Jersey in '75, still have the Mets cards in my collection.

[stlcardsfan]

I bought packs in the Metro East area of St. Louis and never saw any minis.

[Zach Wheat]

Originally Posted by brewing

I didn't collect until 1980 but in Michigan where I grew up it was rare to see any cards in the neighborhood that had regular size. To me 1975 mini is normal.


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My memories are the same as Brent. To me, the mini's seemed "normal". I think I have more '75 mini's than the regular size cards.

Z Wheat

[darkhorse9]

I can say 100 percent that they were distributed in Southwest Michigan. I bought them there on vacation. They were not in Nebraska where I lived, however.

I thought they were a bit weird. But today that's the set I have. I don't own the standard sized set, just a mini set.

How do those who own the mini set display them in binders. I found some crappy sheets that hold them but didn't like the plastic content so I switched them to a standard 9-pocket.

[mybestbretts]

I can tell you I live in the greater Kansas City area and we didn't have them.
Didn't see them except at a show or in a magazine ad.

[Rickyy]

Yes..they did have them out here in N calif.... I thought I was buying regular cards when I bought a whole wax pack box at 7-11 here in San Jose....imagine my shock when I busted them out! :O I was so confused as I bought a regular size rack pack to start putting together a week earlier... -_-

[bobsbbcards]

Originally Posted by darkhorse9

How do those who own the mini set display them in binders.

If you put the cards in penny sleeves before putting them in standard 9-pocket sheets, it works pretty well.

[71buc]

I live south of Seattle the minis were all that were available here that year.

[steve B]

minis were briefly available in western Mass. The store I went to in Dalton probably had a box or two. I had about one packs worth when I found out what they were a coupe years later

Steve B

[Harliduck]

Originally Posted by 71buc

I live south of Seattle the minis were all that were available here that year.

Another Seattle guy...only Mini's. I didn't see a regular sized card until the mid 80's while visiting Michael Kramers shop in Lynnwood (Pacific Trading Cards) and was shocked. I had no idea regular sized cards existed. They still look strange to me today.

[brian1961]

The late Charles Conlon assuredly must be mentioned in this thread. As reported, Topps test-marketed the 1975 Minis in Michigan. A native to Michigan, collector - dealer Charles Conlon, once he got wind Topps was indeed test-marketing the Minis in his home state, proceeded to become a silent but deadly, un-stark raving maniac of a hoarder / investor of these. He went absolute nutzo with the Michigan Minis, surely spoiling any valid test results for Topps. Whatever Topps issued in Michigan, you can best be sure Charles scoured any area he thought might have them.

Ever the poker player, once Mr. Conlon cornered the Minis market, most collectors had to come to him to purchase them. Naturally, he never let on the extent of his holdings. He would relate in his frequent SCD ads, in such words, I only have a limited supply, they're running out, buy while you still can, etc. Seems to me he was selling them for about $400 a wax box. Considering what he paid for them, he must have raked in huge piles of dough from glad buyers.

Even at the time of his relatively early death in about 2008, he still had a truckload of '75 Topps Minis. Lest you think I'm pitching you hypo-hyperbole, find one of Robert Edward Auction's then once a year-catologs of about 2009 -2011. The Conlon family chose them to auction off Charles's vast collection, including what "few" cases he STILL had of the 1975 Topps Minis. Moreover, the prices those remaining cases fetched in the REA auction were STILL very, very high, which thoroughly surprised me. Maybe it shouldn't have, but it did.....

Enough said of the small Topps. And no, I did not buy any MINIs from ol' Charlie. --Brian Powell

[Rickyy]

Originally Posted by brian1961

The late Charles Conlon assuredly must be mentioned in this thread. As reported, Topps test-marketed the 1975 Minis in Michigan. A native to Michigan, collector - dealer Charles Conlon, once he got wind Topps was indeed test-marketing the Minis in his home state, proceeded to become a silent but deadly, un-stark raving maniac of a hoarder / investor of these. He went absolute nutzo with the Michigan Minis, surely spoiling any valid test results for Topps. Whatever Topps issued in Michigan, you can best be sure Charles scoured any area he thought might have them.

Ever the poker player, once Mr. Conlon cornered the Minis market, most collectors had to come to him to purchase them. Naturally, he never let on the extent of his holdings. He would relate in his frequent SCD ads, in such words, I only have a limited supply, they're running out, buy while you still can, etc. Seems to me he was selling them for about $400 a wax box. Considering what he paid for them, he must have raked in huge piles of dough from glad buyers.

Even at the time of his relatively early death in about 2008, he still had a truckload of '75 Topps Minis. Lest you think I'm pitching you hypo-hyperbole, find one of Robert Edward Auction's then once a year-catologs of about 2009 -2011. The Conlon family chose them to auction off Charles's vast collection, including what "few" cases he STILL had of the 1975 Topps Minis. Moreover, the prices those remaining cases fetched in the REA auction were STILL very, very high, which thoroughly surprised me. Maybe it shouldn't have, but it did.....

Enough said of the small Topps. And no, I did not buy any MINIs from ol' Charlie. --Brian Powell

Speaking of Charlie, I met him at a show out here in SF back in the old days...and we chatted about the 75's. I told him my experience and how freaked out I got since the cards had shrunk...I then actually started trimming and cutting down some of the regular cards because I thought those were errors so they would fit with the rest of the mini's...we had a good laugh about it....and told him I wish I had his foresight about them!

Ricky Y

[brewing]

If they were limited in release to certain regions (none of big 3, chi, LA, NY), why have they lost the premium they used to carry?

[oaks1912]

Another of those sets that was definitely marketed in California. I bought wax packs in Castro Valley and other East Bay locations, remember buying rack packs at Mervyn's Toy store in San Lorenzo....there was enough gap in the packaging that you could thumb the cards..Hank Aaron #660 was my favorite card / player that year and he was almost always found in the center pack .I've since forgotten who was on top or bottom of him, but managed to accumulate a good sized stack by the summer (100 or so). I attended the Southern California shows across from Disneyland and remember buying a box of cello packs from a So. Cal dealer. Shortly after I bought the box, I found out that they were available in quantity (and priced lower) at Dodger Stadium, in fact into 1976. Southern California was the only locale that I've ever confirmed for the cello packs being sold. I've never seen any other packaging beyond those three methods.... In later years I have purchased collections which originally were assembled in other parts of Northern California as well as Washington (Olympia to Seattle areas)... Initial collation was wild and complete sets were hard to assemble. Not factoring in the size variances and the full bleed edge "miscuts" , it was tougher to put together sets in '75 than it is today..... I guess the next nostalgic sets to cover are Hostess....

[brian1961]

Originally Posted by brewing

If they were limited in release to certain regions (none of big 3, chi, LA, NY), why have they lost the premium they used to carry?

Brent, perhaps you did not read between the lines of my somewhat lengthy discourse of "1975 Topps MINIs and the HAPPY HOARDER, CHARLES CONLON". When Rob Lifson (REA) auctioned off the many cases of '75 MINIs Charles still owned at the time of his demise, the market became rather floooooooooooooooooooooded with them. Think of a beautiful, large balloon getting the needle. --Brian Powell

[brewing]

I understand the hoarding by Conlon. I'm thinking of the total distribution. Even if he possessed 50% of the MI market, the total of the test markets had to be smaller than the rest of the country.


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[brian1961]

Originally Posted by brewing

I understand the hoarding by Conlon. I'm thinking of the total distribution. Even if he possessed 50% of the MI market, the total of the test markets had to be smaller than the rest of the country.


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Hi Brent. I would have responded sooner, but I was at work. From the response of other board members, it would seem I sit corrected as to the breadth of the distribution regions of the 1975 Topps Minis. Guess I needed some time to think about this.

OK, the connotation of a test issue comes down to a print run vastly fewer than the regular issue. And you are quite right in asserting "the total of the test markets had to be smaller than the rest of the country". I dare say it was much, much smaller, given what Topps cranked out for their standard nationwide release.

The key in this discussion is still Charles Conlon. He alone had the foresight, or rather forceful avarice, to hoard and hoard the MINIs. I know there may have been a few collectors who bought a wax box or two and saved them for posterity, and maybe 1-2 actually bought a case. However, in the case of Conlon, he wound up accumulating a truckload of cases. Then sat on them--until the hobby began to blossom with each year of the 80s. Alan Rosen's purchase of one case of MINT 52 high numbers and semi-highs was a major catalyst at getting collector - investors, accumulators, hoarders, and speculators jacked up about buying new old stock in the form of unopened boxes and even cases. People were buying new stuff and just "putting it away for the future". All the major card companies obliged and fed this frenzy.

When Mr. Conlon finally began to offer boxes from his haul, 1975 seemed long enough ago for those cards to "seem" semi-vintage. They were a nice, colorful design. Gorgeous Nolan Ryan. Revered rookies Yount and Brett. As I communicated, Charles never let on how many he had. Again, the public thought of the MINIs as a test issue. = Scarce. = Good investment. Please do not misunderstand what I have said about Charles Conlon. Hoarding is not against the law. Buying low and selling high is not wrong; we all like to enjoy such financial success. Mr. Conlon sensed a good thing in the MINIs, and he was right! But he was a shrewd wheeler-dealer, and a tough negotiator. We could all wish he was giving us help.

Flash forward to when Charles Conlon passed away in about 2008-09. He was still very active selling his cards. All this time buyers thought they were getting a case or box of an issue few in number. The grading industry had been in full swing for over 15 years. Any serious collector knew the big money cards were those having been graded. For a '75 Topps, that means anything PSA 9 and preferably 10. To my LITTLE knowledge, no one, with the possible exception of major dealer Larry Fritsch, had any left-over cases of the regular issue 1975 Topps. They were bought, collected, and handled back in the day. But Conlon had brand new stuff, the stuff cardboard dreams are made of. So, when he died, collectors discovered the truth---he had a whole lot more than he let on. The REA auction of Mr. Conlon's holdings still brought big money. The pictures in the REA catolog of all those cases painted a vivid scenario of flooding the market, even if some buyers sat on them for 30 years.

The potential number of pristine specimens coming from all those cases, and we are not talking about a dozen cases but a LOT more, spoke in clear terms that the value of the MINIs was now minimized. That is why I wrote of a beautiful huge balloon getting the needle.

Could you imagine what a find of say ten cases of '52 Topps high numbers would do to THAT market. Most of us, myself included, would be overjoyed. Those who had labored hard and spent a fortune to furiously build a run of the HIGHs would be fuming furiously. The demand would be there, but a fresh supply of that magnitude would Richtor-Scale their value several notches down.

Supply and demand stands.

Sorry Brent. I better shut up. ---Brian Powell

[GeorgeBailey2]

I bought my regular set from Renata Galasso that year, so I wasn't buying packs (and promptly used a black marker on the checklists). However, I am fairly certain that the regular size was the only one available.
I do recall for either that Halloween or for Halloween 1976, that whatever packs were included in mixed candy bags (Woolworth's, grocery stores, etc.) were 1975 minis, as I did get a couple trick or treating. I believe the reaction was: "What the....?"

[brian1961]

Aside from the distribution discussion, one question I have mused about is precisely why Topps made the decision to create and test the MINIs in the first place.

I know it's just my opinion, but I think it was to ascertain whether kids and the new wave of collecting adults would accept or reject these new puny cards. Duh--obviously, but let's go a bit deeper.

Now, Bazookas were always a nice, smaller box card, few in number, with built-in scarcity, star players, and at a much higher price per card (though you were technically just buying the large quantity of gum and the cards were simply part of the package, though obviously an inducement to purchase that much gum).

Historically, Topps had reduced the size of their cards in '57. The difference was stark, but kids got used to it. Now it's 1975. Our country was trying to get out of the terrible recession of 1973-74. We were about to be hit with one of the worst periods of double-digit inflation, during the Carter administration. In 1975, Topps had increased the cost of a wax pack from 10 cents to 15 cents. The MINIs would have trimmed Topps' overhead costs by perhaps 25%. Maybe it was about this time that Topps trimmed the size of their stick of gum tucked in the wax pack.

Somehow the Topps people got the message their standard size had best be status quo, and don't monkey with the size any more, or else. As George Bailey aptly said, "What the ....!" Just my fifteen cents.

Anybody know for certain? --Brian Powell

[Cardboard Junkie]

Charlie Conlon and I drove down to a warehouse in Toledo Ohio in 1976 in my pickup truck and bought out the leftover stock. He paid for the gas. I only wanted one set. I think the total was about 30 cases. He also had a few regular size 75's in there too. Charlie was a great guy, and the best negotiator I ever met. I Sold him about 1000 54 topps Hockey cheap and he actually had me thinking he was doing me a big time favor taking them off my hands Telling me 54 topps hockey cards were worse than slow death. He was also big into 53 Glendales and bought all my extras. A very nice man, and he loved basketball. 75 minis and regular size were available in South Eastern Mich.

[nolemmings]

The minis were not available in Southern Minnesota. I don't recall seeing them until a card show in Brooklyn Park (Twin Cities suburb) in 1978, but I didn't get around much

Historically, Topps had reduced the size of their cards in '57. The difference was stark, but kids got used to it. Now it's 1975. Our country was trying to get out of the terrible recession of 1973-74. We were about to be hit with one of the worst periods of double-digit inflation, during the Carter administration. In 1975, Topps had increased the cost of a wax pack from 10 cents to 15 cents. The MINIs would have trimmed Topps' overhead costs by perhaps 25%. Maybe it was about this time that Topps trimmed the size of their stick of gum tucked in the wax pack.

I don't think the recession had anything to do with it--I think it was strictly a marketing experiment. BTW, double digit inflation occurred before Carter took office. During his administration, inflation was in the modest or so single digits until his final year, when it went it over 10%. And to be clear, the recessions technically occurred before and after Carter was President-- one on Ford's watch, the other on Reagan's (both saw double digit inflation for longer than Carter). These things are clearly cyclical, and the numbers certainly can lag economic policy, so I am not laying blame or being overly political. I just get tired of Jimmy Carter being treated as a whipping boy.

Back to cards. I believe Topps was merely looking to change it up and see what happened. If they truly were treating their bottom line as paramount, they would have simply stuck to their guns with the smaller size (and the price increase), at least absent a total rejection of the product by the market, which I do not believe occurred. IOW, the minis would have survived longer.

[brian1961]

Todd--Honestly, I was not trying to stick the blame on Jimmy Carter. I liked President Carter. I was using his administration as a point of reference. As for double-digit inflation, I would have to check the numbers because I thought I remember seeing a chart of inflation through the years, and the late 70s stuck in my mind. Perhaps I am confusing the chart I saw with the mortgage interest rates. Anyway, I am sure you are correct about skyrocketing inflation taking place during the years of President Ford, and the early years of President Reagan. We must include the last term of President Nixon as well.

However, I stand by my opinion about why Topps would test the reduction in size of their cards to save money. Any time a business is contemplating a major change such as this, it is to reduce overhead. Perhaps Marvin Miller had negotiated a better deal for the players with Topps. The recession of 73-75 was tough. Coca-Cola stock sank about 74% during the '73-'75 recession. Price of a car shot up dramatically during the 70s. In '73 I recall going to see "The Sting" and paying $3.50. Never had I paid so much to see a movie.

I never saw the MINIs, because by '75 I had become virtually disinterested in current MLB, and was enraptured with vintage baseball cards and baseball history. I believe around that time I was doing a research project to convince the Veterans' Committee of the Baseball HOF to enshrine Addie Joss. Never got it done, but at least they enshrined Mr. Joss.

Well Todd, have a pleasant day. --Brian Powell

[Troy Kirk]

I also got the 1975 minis in northern California. At the time, I subscribed to the hobby magazines, and I knew pretty quickly that they were only distributed in certain areas. If I had some cash, I would have bought some extras back then, but I was just a kid with no money. 1975 minis were definitely an opportunity that hobby insiders knew about, so I'm not surprised Conlon took advantage of that, but I'm maybe a little surprised that more people didn't do what he did.

One other thing about 1975s is that the price went up to 15 cents a pack that year instead of 10 cents a pack for 1974s.

[bigfanNY]

In 75 the news that Topps had a test issue spread through the Hobby quickly aided by the fact that the Sports collectors Digest was in Michigan where the Majority of the test area was. My Dad and I bought a Wax case from a Detroit dealer at a NYC show that spring which we promptly opened up and made sets . At the time Topps said that Minis were 2% to 5% of production. And at that time a regular set was roughly $9.00 and a Mini set $25. As for the premium almost all of the Minis were gobbled up by collectors and were cared for vs the standard issue that was widely distributed and played with and enjoyed by kids like me (I was 14) Over Time with condition playing a key role almost as many nice Minis exist as regular issue Topps so supply and demand has eroded the premium.
A couple years later with 1977 cloth stickers the same thing happened collectors bought the majority of the cards and the hobby was over saturated. There are far less cloth stickers than regular issue but much more demand for regular issue. JMHO
Jonathan

[billyb]

It was my belief that Topps targeted the 75 mini's in just two states, Michigan and Washington, so it makes sense that in the bordering states of Michigan and Washington also were able to pick up some cases to sell, probably from dealers from the two states. Northern California and Ohio were probably the most recipient of the spillage of the stock.

[toppcat]

Originally Posted by billyb

It was my belief that Topps targeted the 75 mini's in just two states, Michigan and Washington, so it makes sense that in the bordering states of Michigan and Washington also were able to pick up some cases to sell, probably from dealers from the two states. Northern California and Ohio were probably the most recipient of the spillage of the stock.

I think some small % of mini distribution can be attributed to which jobbers they used as well. I suspect they used their three main non-NY distribution centers to test 98% of the run and then had some small, controlled releases of it, much like a normal test issue.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by billyb

It was my belief that Topps targeted the 75 mini's in just two states, Michigan and Washington, so it makes sense that in the bordering states of Michigan and Washington also were able to pick up some cases to sell, probably from dealers from the two states. Northern California and Ohio were probably the most recipient of the spillage of the stock.

Western Mass is a long way from either for spillage.

Steve B

[brob28]

Originally Posted by billyb

It was my belief that Topps targeted the 75 mini's in just two states, Michigan and Washington, so it makes sense that in the bordering states of Michigan and Washington also were able to pick up some cases to sell, probably from dealers from the two states. Northern California and Ohio were probably the most recipient of the spillage of the stock.

I can confirm some of the "spillage" made its way to the northwest Chicago suburbs. I was 7 at the time and ended up with some.

[doug.goodman]

90 miles north of San Francisco, and 750 miles south of Seattle (with Oregon in the middle) the only 1975 cards available were minis.

Doug

[ALR-bishop]

Doug---is this like a scavenger hunt ?

[JollyElm]

I was at a show in a suburb of San Francisco on Saturday, and the dealers there mirrored what Doug said. They told me that all they had in 1975 were minis. The regular sized cards to them were the rarities, not the other way around.

On Long Island, we didn't have minis at all and the first time I ever saw one was some time in the 80's.

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

Doug---is this like a scavenger hunt ?

20 miles from Clear Lake...

[Lueth2048]

My neighborhood in suburban Cleveland was saturated with minis for a short time in 1975. It probably coincided with the arrival of two kids from the Bay Area who spent the summer at the house of a kid who lived down the street from me.

[ALR-bishop]

Those two kids probably really messed up Topps test distribution plan

[Lueth2048]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

Those two kids probably really messed up Topps test distribution plan

In our neighborhood they did. We had no idea what the minis were and didn't like them when they showed up.

[Acollector]

I always wondered how rare the mini's are. It seems there are plenty of supposedly sealed wax boxes on ebay. I guess they are rare compared to the standard sized cards. The end price of the wax boxes for the mini's on ebay would suggest they are rare, but I've seen what to me seems like a lot.

[toppcat]

Originally Posted by Acollector

I always wondered how rare the mini's are. It seems there are plenty of supposedly sealed wax boxes on ebay. I guess they are rare compared to the standard sized cards. The end price of the wax boxes for the mini's on ebay would suggest they are rare, but I've seen what to me seems like a lot.

I wonder if the numbers are close actually. Given how may regular 75's were destroyed just by kids being kids and years later moms being moms and how many mini's were still sealed decades later, I'll bet the difference is not all that great.

[mattsedate]

Love the mini's

[whiteymet]

OK guys. Help me out here. I am not up on post 1960's Topps cards.

My neighbor just rang my door bell and handed me a box with 5 rolls of uncut sheets!

Two 1975 Basketball with Bing, Walton, Monroe and Maravich

Two 1975 Baseball One with Seaver, Yaz and McCovey, the other with Perry, Carew, Torre, Aaron, Killebrew, Gossage, Frank Robinson, Brock and Rookies of Carter and Rice

and finally...

One sheet of 1975 Topps Mini's with Ryan, Rose, Reggie Jackson, and Palmer. Checklist card lists numbers 397-528.

The mini sheet has some creases and edge wear.

What do I have here value wise??

Are these for ebay or one of the auction houses?

I want to help get my neighbor a fair price.

All help is appreciated.

Fred

[Cardboard Junkie]

VALUABLE! Big Auction House! Let's see some photos? Please.

[whiteymet]

Originally Posted by Cardboard Junkie

VALUABLE! Big Auction House! Let's see some photos? Please.

I assume you wanted to see the 75 Mini sheet? If you want the others LMK. Sorry the photo of the entire sheet would not load.

Guesstimate on value that I can tell my neighbor Tony?

Fred

[ALR-bishop]

Fred -- very neat item. I have no idea on value but there is a long 1975 Mini thread with a lot of expertise on the Collectors Universe PSA registry board. It is usually on page 1. Someone there may have some input for you

[whiteymet]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

Fred -- very neat item. I have no idea on value but there is a long 1975 Mini thread with a lot of expertise on the Collectors Universe PSA registry board. It is usually on page 1. Someone there may have some input for you

Hi Al:

Thanks for the suggestion. But after posting and waiting a few days for ANY comment, none have responded on the PSA forums.

Seems like eveyone there is caught up in their most recent PSA 7's and 8"s to care abount an uncut sheet.

Strange........

[ALR-bishop]

Agreed Whitey. While I have a set and have posted a couple of times in that long thread, some folks in there are fanatics about the set and I thought they would at least appreciate and discuss your sheets and speculate on value. Sorry about the bum steer

[whiteymet]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

Agreed Whitey. While I have a set and have posted a couple of times I that long thread, some folks in there are fanatics about the set and I thought they would at least appreciate and discuss your sheets and speculate on value. Sorry about the bum steer

Thanks Al! Also Thanks for the note on the CU forum. Hope it generates something.

Fred

[Nick55]

Hi Guys,

I'm a first time poster here, but have lurked here for awhile now. I really appreciate this thread and the good information you all have provided on the historical distribution of the Mini's.

I'm an avid collector of '75 Topps Mini's in both graded and raw form since 2008. I'm also an avid participant in the Mini thread on the PSA forum going by the user id "Indy78." I guess I'm one of those Mini fanatics over there, lol.

Regarding the Mini sheet, I don't know too much about them and have no interest in collecting them. I saw one with Yaz on it sell on eBay last month for around $675. Others I recall going for between $600-$800 plus depending upon condition. If that sheet were in decent shape and I had to make a guess on what it would bring, I would think one could get $800-$1,000 for it because it has the Brett and Yount. With that said, if it were me and the sheet was in great shape, I would consign it with an auction house. If it was in not-so-great condition, I'd probably try to sell it myself on eBay.

The latest discussion we've been having over there in the 75 Mini thread is on whether anyone has ever seen or had reliable knowledge of the existence of 75 Mini's being distributed to dealers way back when in cut card cases. I would appreciate it if anyone could share their experience in this area if they've seen or heard of a Mini cut card case. There's some recent speculation that perhaps it's possible that the 20,000-card lot originating from Mr. Conlon's Mini collection auctioned by REA around 2009 may have been from a cut card case. I'd be curious if anyone knows anything about those topics and would be willing to share.

Thanks!
Nick Jayjack