Premium for Lionel Carter collection cards

[Section103]

This might be difficult to say given the diversity of Mr. Carter's collection, but what kind of premium do you think his cards sell for?

Thanks.

[conor912]

Originally Posted by Section103

This might be difficult to say given the diversity of Mr. Carter's collection, but what kind of premium do you think his cards sell for?

Thanks.

$0

[MW1]

Originally Posted by Section103

This might be difficult to say given the diversity of Mr. Carter's collection, but what kind of premium do you think his cards sell for?

Thanks.

I have sold quite a few cards from Lionel Carter's collection over the last five years (more than 100) and have generally realized prices in the 1.25 to 2X range, depending on the card. Some examples sold on eBay since 2008:

1948 Bowman #34 Sheldon Jones SGC 50 $45
1948 Bowman #26 Frank Shea SGC 50 $40
1937 O-Pee-Chee #130 Ben Chapman SGC 60 $175
1948 Bowman #25 Barney McCoskey SGC Authentic $45
1948 Bowman #28 Emil Verban SGC Authentic $50
1948 Bowman #38 Red Schoendienst SGC 84 $590
1948 Bowman #42 Ray Poat SGC 70 $72
1948-49 Leaf #128 Warren Rosar SGC 88 $475
1948 Bowman #48 George Koslo RC SGC 88 $800
1948 Bowman #16 Jack Lohrke SGC 88 $400
1948 Bowman #27 Sid Gordon SGC 88 $300
1948-49 Leaf #14 Billy Johnson SGC 86 $400
1948 Bowman #1 Bob Elliott SGC 84 $146.50
1948 Bowman #6 Yogi Berra SGC 84 $611.01
1948-49 Leaf #53 Johnny Vandermeer SGC 84 $251.98
1948 Bowman #3 Ralph Kiner RC SGC 84 $260.00
1948 Bowman #17 Enos Slaughter SGC 84 $178.00
1937 O-Pee-Chee #137 Lefty Grove SGC 84 $1000.00
1937 O-Pee-Chee #139 Buck Newsom SGC 84 $400.00
1948 Bowman #36 Stan Musial Rookie SGC 88 $3250.00
1948-49 Leaf #11 Phil Rizzuto SGC 84 $750.00
1948-49 Leaf #31 Lou Brissie SGC 86 $500.00
1948-49 Leaf #83 Bobby Doerr SGC 86 $600.00
1948-49 Leaf #77 Roy Smalley SGC 86 $450.00
1948-49 Leaf #39 Ewell Blackwell SGC 84 $265.00
1948-49 Leaf #1 Joe DiMaggio SGC 80 $2500.00
1937 O-Pee-Chee #119 Bill Dickey SGC 84 $1200.00
1948-49 Leaf #49 Del Ennis SGC 88 $700.00
1948-49 Leaf #14 Billy Johnson SGC 86 $400.00
1956 Topps #181 Billy Martin SGC 88 $400.00
1948 Bowman #5 Bob Feller SGC 92 $1000.00
1948-49 Leaf #91 Ralph Kiner SGC 84 $425.00
1948 Bowman #18 Warren Spahn RC SGC 84 $750.00
1934-36 Diamond Stars #11 Bill Dickey SGC 84 $550.00
1934-36 Diamond Stars #32 Sam Rice SGC 84 $225.00


Note: Some of the card prices above reflect a multiplier greater than 2X, but this mostly comprises those examples that are otherwise NM-MT or Mint but have relatively small defects that lower the technical condition by one or more grades.

[Section103]

Thanks, both of you. I had some recollection that a premium often didn't exist. A few of the cards on my radar are fairly high grades so this information is very helpful.

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

I think it would only bring. A premium if people know who he was. If I were selling cards from his collection I would include information about Mr.Carter or a link to a page with info about him.

[conor912]

Originally Posted by I Only Smoke 4 the Cards

I think it would only bring. A premium if people know who he was. If I were selling cards from his collection I would include information about Mr.Carter or a link to a page with info about him.

I know who he is. I just don't place a premium on a previous owner. To me, the card is the card.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by conor912

I know who he is. I just don't place a premium on a previous owner. To me, the card is the card.

Agree 100 percent.

[3-2-count]

Depends on the card and who the buyer is. I see both arguments, but I personally place a small premium on some of his tougher cards because well, I think it's cool.

[Northviewcats]

I believe that any additional value given to card based on who collected it in the past is assigned by the purchaser.

For example, I paid a little more for a T206 Tinker from the Skydash collection, solely because I enjoyed remembering how the discovery of the collection unfolded on this board. To me the memory was worth the extra $20 I paid for the card.

Maybe someday my grandson will ask me why the card is encapsulated with Skydah on the label and I will have a good story to tell him about how some old cardboard was rescued from the garbage.

Best regards,

Joe

[3-2-count]

Originally Posted by Northviewcats

I believe that any additional value given to card based on who collected it in the past is assigned by the purchaser.

For example, I paid a little more for a T206 Tinker from the Skydash collection, solely because I enjoyed remembering how the discovery of the collection unfolded on this board. To me the memory was worth the extra $20 I paid for the card.

Maybe someday my grandson will ask me why the card is encapsulated with Skydah on the label and I will have a good story to tell him about how some old cardboard was rescued from the garbage.

Best regards,

Joe

Exactly what I meant Joe. Well said!

[freakhappy]

Originally Posted by 3-2-count

Exactly what I meant Joe. Well said!

That is exactly how I feel about this scenario as well. Joe, your explanation was spot on IMO.

There is indeed a premium, but it solely depends on the purchaser. I enjoy purchasing cards with pedigree labels...they give the card more history and if it's someone famous in the hobby, it makes the card that much more special...but that's just me


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[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Agree 100 percent.

+1...

[bobbyw8469]

I have only had one Lionel Carter card ever. It brought no premium whatsoever.

[E93]

I think there should be a small premium. In the interest of full disclosure, I own the first set he completed - collected straight out of packs. In the interest of further disclosure, it is NOT for sale.
JimB

[ullmandds]

That's awesome, Jim. I too think there should be a small premium...just like there is with original owner cards...the provenance has value...to some that is!

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

That's awesome, Jim. I too think there should be a small premium...just like there is with original owner cards...the provenance has value...to some that is!

Agreed. Again this is personal. I would think that over time the actual value increase would be minimal.

[Leon]

I would pay a little more for a good pedigree....

[William Todd]

img2980.jpg

I was able to get about 60 of his T207's. His desire for quality shows how scarce some of these cards can be.

[William Todd]

img2946.jpg

[ethicsprof]

great acquisitions of a great set from the collection of a key figure in the early history of the hobby.
I have no problem paying a premium for Lionel Carter collection cards because of his early contributions to this fine hobby.
In a similar vein from a vocational perspective, I have collected key tomes
in my own academic specialties from major thinkers' own personal collections.
Admittedly, I have chosen only very,very few individuals to represent the avocational and vocational arenas. The premiums paid were no match for
the personal and professional value I received.
Still, I will add 'to each his own'.

all the best,
barry

[conor912]

I guess my biggest issue with these "pedigreed" cards (i.e Carter, Nagy, etc.) is their direct tie to slabbing. You don't see anyone out there selling/marketing raw cards from theses guys' collections.

[e107collector]

Lionel had some great cards, with really nice eye appeal. I have no problem paying a premium for the pedigree.

Tony

[Jantz]

Well said Joe!

Mr. Carter was a passionate collector and I'm happy to have a small piece of that passion in my collection. The premium was minimal.


Jantz

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

Originally Posted by e107collector

Lionel had some great cards, with really nice eye appeal. I have no problem paying a premium for the pedigree.

Tony

Nice card. Looks a bit undergraded.

[barrysloate]

I think there should be a small premium too, because all things being equal, there should be more demand for cards with a known pedigree than those without. And Carter certainly was in the pantheon of early collectors. It's just common sense they would be a little more desirable.

[Bosox Blair]

I like Lionel's cards and would pay (have paid) a bit more for them. Other famed collectors who seemed to get a lot of trimmed/doctored cards (Nagy, Harris) I won't buy at all for any price:

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by E93

I think there should be a small premium. In the interest of full disclosure, I own the first set he completed - collected straight out of packs. In the interest of further disclosure, it is NOT for sale.
JimB

Very cool Jim how much?

[calvindog]

I'd pay a premium for, among other reasons, the reduced likelihood that the card is trimmed.

[E93]

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

Very cool Jim how much?

I guess everything has a price…
JimB

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by e93

i guess everything has a price…
jimb

lol. :d

[iwantitiwinit]

From my experiences Lionel Carter designated T206 cards do in fact demand a modest premium when compared to other similar T206's. I have four Lionel Carter T206 designated cards each of which I purchased thru regular ebay auctions. I paid roughly 15 - 20% more than what I would estimate non Carter cards went for at the time. I cannot opine on anything other than the T206's. I had no problem paying a bit more given their provenance.

[kcohen]

Originally Posted by Leon

I would pay a little more for a good pedigree....

Then buy a dog.

[Rob D.]

 

[ethicsprof]

wow!!!
this is the best way to have the 2 toughest of the 520 IMHO.
congratulations!
all the best,
barry

[glynparson]

I do not believe there should be one however I think generally there is.

[Mikehealer]

If there are two identical cards, in roughly the same condition I think the "Carter" card would and should sell for a bit more.

[Kawika]

The LC provenance makes owning a good card a bit better.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Kawika

The LC provenance makes owning a good card a bit better.

THAT is not a good card David. That is a GREAT card.....LC certainly had a good eye....

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Kawika

The LC provenance makes owning a good card a bit better.

Damn, I love this card to death.

[calvindog]

[CW]

Great cards, all.

[brian1961]

Naturally, it will depend on the card and its grade, but yes, there should be some sort of premium attached to a card with the provenance of being from Lionel Carter's personal collection.

He had "the eye", as shown by the scan of the 1914 Cracker Jack Christy Mathewson, as well as ALL the cards our members are sharing. Never mind the technical grade of the Cracker Jack Matty, the heart of the image is superb, and it's centered to boot. That is one of the great cards, period. Having known Mr. Carter personally, though not extensively, I will vouch for the fact he was extremely picky on condition. While he was collecting, he was always on the lookout to upgrade a card, too.

Prewar, postwar, oh brother, what a wonderful collection. He really did not wish to part with his cards, and the vast haul given to him for his collection did nothing to diminish his yearning for them. Advancing years, failing health, and a robbery. The latter was the straw that broke him. Legendary Auctions was instrumental in getting his stolen collection returned to Mr. Carter. That act of justice and kindness should always be remembered where they are concerned. I know. I know. There are other issues involved with Legendary, but I cannot fathom how excruciatingly traumatic that must have been for Lionel and Irma.

Time to hush again. A decent premium is certainly warranted where Mr. Carter's cards are concerned. I dare say that knowing a card once resided in his collection is half the fun of owning one today.

---Brian Powell

[freakhappy]

Originally Posted by Kawika

The LC provenance makes owning a good card a bit better.

David, that card is stunning. Ever since I have seen this card for the first time, it's been one of my favorites. I'm gonna have to grab one sooner rather than later!


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[glynparson]

great eye appeal for the grade it should always have a premium. To say every card he had had strong eye appeal is also not correct. I agree he had tons of gorgeous cards. But cards should be judged on the cards merits not who owned it previously. I can see a premium on Mickey Mantle's personal 1952 Topps Mantle, or similar items, but not Mr. Carter's cards simply because he owned them.

[E93]

Droooool!
JimB

Originally Posted by Kawika

The LC provenance makes owning a good card a bit better.

[MyGuyTy]

Originally Posted by calvindog

I'd pay a premium for, among other reasons, the reduced likelihood that the card is trimmed.

Thought I'd bump a great thread. I completely agree with Jeff here, to me and many others, Lionel's cards were some of the most beautiful in the hobby and should surely command some premiums. He really did have an eye for great looking cards! The fact that it came from his collection gives me peace of mind that the cards are likely pure and legit and free of any alterations. My only example is a beauty, rich colors, great centering and a crisply registered image of Prince Hal

[ethicsprof]

that is quite the beauty with top shelf provenance.
congrats.
all the best,
barry

[Sean]

Hey Buddy, that really is a beautiful card.

[ullmandds]

This E94 young may be my only Lionel!

[MyGuyTy]

Originally Posted by ethicsprof

that is quite the beauty with top shelf provenance.
congrats.
all the best,
barry

Originally Posted by Sean

Hey Buddy, that really is a beautiful card.

Thanks guys, it might be my only LC, but it sure is a neat card