Ty Cobb

[Zone91]

Just reading a book about him and I must say I am really impressed by what he has to say and what good came to him from playing baseball (on his own life).

I thought he would be a boring read but I prefer his professional attitude over most other players who only partied in their spare time off the field (Ex: Ruth or Mantle...don't get me wrong I like these guys to but prefer Cobb's attitude). I love the fact he was a scholar and noticed how important it was for ball players to get a education.

Post # 2

[brewing]

Which book?

[Zone91]

Ty Cobb: ''My twenty years in baseball'' Edited by William R. Cobb

Great book!!

I now am a Ty Cobb fan for sure. Before this book I had a bad image of him from what other people had said...but now I do not!! Love the way his father ends up been a huge baseball fan...any kid would love to have a dad like that that encourages him no matter what as long as he shows passion for the game.

Post # 3

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by Zone91

Ty Cobb: ''My twenty years in baseball'' Edited by William R. Cobb

Great book!!

I now am a Ty Cobb fan for sure. Before this book I had a bad image of him from what other people had said...but now I do not!! Love the way his father ends up been a huge baseball fan...any kid would love to have a dad like that that encourages him no matter what as long as he shows passion for the game.

Post # 3

You are certainly right on some aspects of Cobb. But from a fan's perspective, he was not in Ruth or Mantle's league as far as being loved. He would fight with anyone in a heartbeat, and he would take on all comers. He also was a flagrant racist and did not mind expressing his thoughts anywhere. On the field, he was second to none. Also in his later years, he financially supported many of his former teammates (1 was a Hall of Famer). He was extremely brilliant on how he invested his money....

[Zone91]

CMIZ5290

Me been sober for over 3 years I can appreciate that aspect of Cobb way more now than I could have ever done so in my party days. He explains why he became so serious in the book and I respect him for been like that.

I love Babe Ruth's story as well and Mantle's (my favorite player of all time) also...just not so much how much they drank all the time.

Post # 4

[margoaepi]

[QUOTE=Zone91;1142395]

I thought he would be a boring read but I prefer his professional attitude over most other players who only partied in their spare time off the field (Ex: Ruth or Mantle...don't get me wrong I like these guys to but prefer Cobb's attitude).

I think its safe to say that Ruth and Mantle did their fair share of 'on the field partying' as well.

[Piratedogcardshows]

Ty Cobb=G.O.A.T

[Paul S]

Adrian: I am always suspect about autobiographies. You do know that Cobb's mother shot and killed his father?

Kevin: I don't always agree with you but you are pretty much spot on. Conflicted, he was, I would say.

Paul

[Zone91]

I had no idea that his father killed his mother I am only about 40 pages into the book so far all seems normal.

Post # 7

[brob28]

Adrian, there is another book "Cobb" by Al Stump. A very good read, author tells the good and the bad about Cobb. I was amazed at how badly his teammates in Detroit treated him when he came up. I highly recommend this one.

[Paul S]

Originally Posted by Zone91

I had no idea that his father killed his mother I am only about 40 pages into the book so far all seems normal.

Post # 7

No Bro, mother killed the father. I haven't read that book but I would think that episode might not be in it. I could be wrong since I haven't read it.

[Zone91]

Paul S

Oh I have yet to read a single thing about his mom yet.

Post # 8

[Craig M]

Stopping at a Greenville, South Carolina liquor store, Cobb noticed that the man behind the counter was none other than "Shoeless" Joe Jackson, who had been banned from baseball almost 30 years earlier following the Black Sox scandal. But Jackson did not appear to recognize him, and after making his purchase an incredulous Cobb asked, "Don't you know me, Joe?" "Sure I know you, Ty," replied Jackson, "but I wasn't sure you wanted to know me. A lot of them don't."

Cobb was a good man. I also think Joe Jackson was a humbled man after his mis-step in the scandal. I sure wish things would have turned out differently for Joe.

Thanks for starting the Cobb thread Zone.

[Zone91]

brob28

I will look into that book. Thanks.

Post # 9

[Zone91]

Craig

That is very very cool!!!

Post # 10

[steve B]

Bear in mind that Stumps book has a lot of stuff that's just not true, or is written to make Cobb seem worse than he was. Stump also stole and/or faked a lot of Cobb memorabilia. There's a thread or two on the autograph side, and some of the bad Cobb we all "know" is simply wrong.

Steve B

[Zone91]

steve B

Then I will stay away from that book!!

Post # 11

[Paul S]

Originally Posted by steve B

Bear in mind that Stumps book has a lot of stuff that's just not true, or is written to make Cobb seem worse than he was. Stump also stole and/or faked a lot of Cobb memorabilia. There's a thread or two on the autograph side, and some of the bad Cobb we all "know" is simply wrong.

Steve B

Steve, what you say is true, from everything else I have read about that book. A great read though.

[Sean]

Adrian, back in December I recommended the Al Stump book, and William R. Cobb sent me an article he wrote disputing much of Stump's book. Stump seems to have been a liar and forger.

[wondo]

The Stump book was remade into a movie with Tommy Lee Jones as Cobb in his 70's - weird and entertaining flick!

[photo111]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

You are certainly right on some aspects of Cobb. But from a fan's perspective, he was not in Ruth or Mantle's league as far as being loved. He would fight with anyone in a heartbeat, and he would take on all comers. He also was a flagrant racist and did not mind expressing his thoughts anywhere. On the field, he was second to none. Also in his later years, he financially supported many of his former teammates (1 was a Hall of Famer). He was extremely brilliant on how he invested his money....

flagrant racist?

[Zone91]

Thanks guys!!

Post # 12

[cyseymour]

Notice how Adrian ignores anything bad that is said about Ty Cobb... only one possible reason... he is buying a Ty Cobb card off of ebay. This whole thing is so predictable at this point that he no longer needs to announce his pickups.

[T206Collector]

This is the article about the Stump lies...

http://sabr.org/research/georgia-pea...ed-storyteller

[tedzan]

Now, if you really want to read a good book on Cobb and Ruth, then check-out this one......





It starts with their rivalry when Ruth started pitching for Boston in 1914 and finishes with their friendship.
It is very well written and very well researched.


TED Z

[Zone91]

cyseymour

I am ignoring the bad simply because I want to see the good people see in him...no I am not buying any Cobb cards for long while. My goals for the summer are to add 20 cards to my 1952 Topps set and 2 or 3 new PSA 8 Mantle cards to my master set...again no Cobb.

Post # 14

[Zone91]

tedzan

Thanks I am going to buy that book.

Post # 15

[deadballfreaK]

Al Stump was the biggest liar and thief to ever come down the pike. He waited until Cobb was dead and then made a cottage industry out of writing sensational books and selling stolen and forged Cobb items. He lived off his so called closeness to Cobb for 30+ years. Cobb was no doubt an unpleasant man at times, a poor parent, a racist at least in his younger days, but also a brilliant and philanthropic man. No way was he the psychotic nut Stump depicted. The movie "Cobb" is entertaining, but based totally on Stump's lies.

[cyseymour]

Originally Posted by Zone91

cyseymour

I am ignoring the bad simply because I want to see the good people see in him...no I am not buying any Cobb cards for long while. My goals for the summer are to add 20 cards to my 1952 Topps set and 2 or 3 new PSA 8 Mantle cards to my master set...again no Cobb.

Post # 14

"In 1907 during spring training in Augusta, Georgia, a black groundskeeper named Bungy, whom Cobb had known for years, attempted to shake Cobb’s hand or pat him on the shoulder." The "overly familiar greeting infuriated" Cobb, who attacked Bungy. When Bungy's wife tried to defend him, Cobb choked her.

In 1908, Cobb attacked a black laborer in Detroit who complained when Cobb stepped into freshly poured asphalt; Cobb was found guilty of battery but the sentence was suspended.

He once slapped a black elevator operator for being "uppity." When a black night watchman intervened, he pulled out a knife and stabbed him. The matter was later settled out of court.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ty_Cobb

There's a little history you might not find in his self-promotional autobiography.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by deadballfreaK

Al Stump was the biggest liar and thief to ever come down the pike. He waited until Cobb was dead and then made a cottage industry out of writing sensational books and selling stolen and forged Cobb items. He lived off his so called closeness to Cobb for 30+ years. Cobb was no doubt an unpleasant man at times, a poor parent, a racist at least in his younger days, but also a brilliant and philanthropic man. No way was he the psychotic nut Stump depicted. The movie "Cobb" is entertaining, but based totally on Stump's lies.

Totally agree with you here Ken. He had a brilliant business mind, and helped out alot of his close friends who were financially in trouble, and I do agree about Al Stump. There was an earlier post questioning his racism, and that I dont understand. Cobb was known to express opinions at times pertaining this issue. I do think it was somewhat blown out of proportion in the movie. All of that said, he is still my all time favorite. Some people also seem to forget that in the initial 1936 Hall of Fame induction, he had a higher percentage of votes than Ruth, Wagner, Mathewson, and Johnson! Pretty rermarkable....

[Bugsy]

The best book on Cobb was written by Charles Alexander. The Stump book is wildly inaccurate.

[jbbama]

I have read the Stump book and and also The Babe and Ty book. Both were very interesting and do provide a lot of insight into the player as well as the person.

[whitehse]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Now, if you really want to read a good book on Cobb and Ruth, then check-out this one......





It starts with their rivalry when Ruth started pitching for Boston in 1914 and finishes with their friendship.
It is very well written and very well researched.


TED Z

Ted, thanks for the reccomendation. This has been on my list and it just moved to the top as my next purchase. I had read the Stump book previously and decided I was not a Cobb fan. After reading about all the inaccuracies in that book and knowing the fraudulent background of Stump I am now forced to rethink my idea of what kind of man Cobb really was. Hopefully this book will shed a different light on the man.

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by cyseymour

"In 1907 during spring training in Augusta, Georgia, a black groundskeeper named Bungy, whom Cobb had known for years, attempted to shake Cobb’s hand or pat him on the shoulder." The "overly familiar greeting infuriated" Cobb, who attacked Bungy. When Bungy's wife tried to defend him, Cobb choked her.

In 1908, Cobb attacked a black laborer in Detroit who complained when Cobb stepped into freshly poured asphalt; Cobb was found guilty of battery but the sentence was suspended.

He once slapped a black elevator operator for being "uppity." When a black night watchman intervened, he pulled out a knife and stabbed him. The matter was later settled out of court.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ty_Cobb

There's a little history you might not find in his self-promotional autobiography.

How much of this is based on Stump's book?

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by whitehse

Ted, thanks for the reccomendation. This has been on my list and it just moved to the top as my next purchase. I had read the Stump book previously and decided I was not a Cobb fan. After reading about all the inaccuracies in that book and knowing the fraudulent background of Stump I am now forced to rethink my idea of what kind of man Cobb really was. Hopefully this book will shed a different light on the man.

Andrew

It's fast read (only 238 pages). Check-out the Appendix....Stanton has documented the game-by-game match-up of Cobb vs. Ruth
from 1915 to 1927.


TED Z

[auggiedoggy]

Originally Posted by Zone91

cyseymour

I am ignoring the bad simply because I want to see the good people see in him...no I am not buying any Cobb cards for long while. My goals for the summer are to add 20 cards to my 1952 Topps set and 2 or 3 new PSA 8 Mantle cards to my master set...again no Cobb.

Post # 14

But there's a beauty of a Cobb on eBay right now, red portrait with a rare Lenox back!!! Oh, c'mon. You know you want it.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1911-T206-Le...item3f25d1394f

[bigtrain]

I recently read Heart of a Tiger by Hershel Cobb, his grandson. Has very little to do with baseball but an interesting read nevertheless as it discusses the family dynamics, his two sons who both died young, in their 30s and 40s, and the relationship between Cobb and his grandchildren. There is also a little at the end about Cobb catching Al Stump trying to steal memorabilia from his study.

[SetBuilder]

Originally Posted by steve B

Bear in mind that Stumps book has a lot of stuff that's just not true, or is written to make Cobb seem worse than he was. Stump also stole and/or faked a lot of Cobb memorabilia. There's a thread or two on the autograph side, and some of the bad Cobb we all "know" is simply wrong.

Steve B

I read half of the Al Stump book and decided to search online for reviews. That's when I read about all the lies and the fraud. Just didn't seem very honest. I couldn't finish it after that. It felt more like fiction at that point.

[Zone91]

auggiedoggy

Hahaha the stick was funny as hell!!!!

WAY out of my price league...I would only spend over 10 000$ on 3 cards...the 52 Topps Mantle (Already own one and have ZERO need to upgrade), the Joe Jackson rookie and the Nap Lajoie in the 33 Goudey set.

Post # 3

[auggiedoggy]

Originally Posted by Zone91

auggiedoggy

Hahaha the stick was funny as hell!!!!

WAY out of my price league...I would only spend over 10 000$ on 3 cards...the 52 Topps Mantle (Already own one and have ZERO need to upgrade), the Joe Jackson rookie and the Nap Lajoie in the 33 Goudey set.

Post # 3

So I guess the Cobb, green portrait, PSA 7 is out of the question?
If I had $32,000.00 I didn't care about, I'd buy it now!

p.s. The poking stick was a nice addition to my repertoire. The standard emoticons are too limiting.

[brob28]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

This is the article about the Stump lies...

http://sabr.org/research/georgia-pea...ed-storyteller

Incredible, thanks for sharing that. I had no idea Stump was such a crook.

[Tomman1961]

What I loved about the Al Stump book is that there are 2. He wrote the first about 1961 WITH Cobb who had editorial rights. So Stmp had to write what Cobb said. After Cobbs death, Stump "re-writes" it - suposedly telling what the true stories are. A great read to read them back-to-back. Then there is the movie 'Cobb" which is the story behind the first book.

[Tomman1961]

I wrote my thing here on Al Stump books BEFORE I read the other posts. I had no idea the books are lies. I stand corrected. Too made. They were entertaining.

[TRC4191]

Some of you might recall my article about Ty Cobb titled The Georgia Peach: Stumped by the Storyteller that was published in SABR's The National Pastime in 2010. This was discussed on this forum in an earlier thread:

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=126438

(This article won the McFarland/SABR Award for Best Baseball History of the Year for 2010)

I have recently revised and updated that article and published it as a short book of the same title which is now available from $4.99 on Amazon at http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1628408030

The revisions include the FBI report on the Ty Cobb diary in the HOF Museum that Al Stump forged. It took me two years to obtain that document through a Freedom of Information Act request, and an appeal of the initial FBI denial to release it. Also included is information and photos of the second Stump forged Ty Cobb diary that was in the Elliott Museum in Florida, plus a number of other items of forged memorabilia items there.

The revisions to the text are not extensive, but, in book form, I was able to present the exhibit photos in a much more legible format than was originally published in 2010.

I hope you will consider adding this book to your library.

William R. "Ron" Cobb

[insidethewrapper]

As previous stated, the book by Charles Alexander on Cobb is the best written and highly recommended.