EMR Team-Please have this one removed

daves_resale_shop · #1 03-04-2013, 05:04 AM

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lou-Gehrig-A...item1c308eb889

GrayGhost · #2 03-04-2013, 05:17 AM

Did you write them? That is a horrible fake.

daves_resale_shop · #3 03-04-2013, 05:45 AM

No,

I have notified them several times of Ace Certified material only to see it close...

Case in point:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BABE-RUTH-CU...p2047675.l2557

thetruthisoutthere · #4 03-04-2013, 06:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daves_resale_shop

No,

I have notified them several times of Ace Certified material only to see it close...

Case in point:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BABE-RUTH-CU...p2047675.l2557

Gone and "Voided."

RichardSimon · #5 03-04-2013, 06:28 AM

How do jerks like this even get an autograph? He admits he knows nothing about sports collectibles.
Look at his other items for sale. A keyboard, a scanner, jewelry and books.
Only on the bay can crap like this go on.

Leon · #6 03-04-2013, 06:41 AM

Thanks to our members and the EMR folks in helping keep the hobby safer.....

sylbry · #7 03-04-2013, 07:07 AM

travrosty · #8 03-04-2013, 12:23 PM

[QUOTE=sylbry;1098219]I have tried unsuccessfully to report the multiple user ID's that are selling awful Bo Jackson signed baseballs. Every time a new listing pops up I report it but they never get removed. How on earth do you get ebay do actually do something about the listings? Here are the listings under the multiple user IDs over the past 90 days. All of the baseballs are horrible fakes signed in the same hand. I would assume every other baseball sold by these sellers is fake as well. Someone is making a good chunk of money via ebay's complicity towards fake autographs.

you cant get ebay to do anything regarding fake autographs, thats the point.

i ask emr's to help remove a fake sonny liston, cant be done, its psa. forget about fairness and equality. it's protectionism.

calling ALL emr's, heres the fake

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&output=...w=1368&bih=620

here's the proof.

http://www.fighttoys.com/PSAListon.htm

now where is the POOF? Ebay doesn't care about fake autographs, they care about protecting certain groups and the name on the cert. i guess pre-approved means infallable?????? Is the pope certing these? No, just Steve Grad.

novakjr · #9 03-04-2013, 12:36 PM

sylbry. Damn. Bo must love those official league balls. I almost wonder if ebay should ban all signed "official league" balls, unless they come with certification from an approved authenticator.. Personally, I'm getting tired of having to sort through them..Almost EVERY one is atrocious, and comes with some hokey holo, generic father-son COA, or Global cert..

novakjr · #10 03-04-2013, 12:39 PM

[QUOTE=travrosty;1098346]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sylbry

they care about protecting certain groups and the name on the cert. i guess pre-approved means infallable?????? Is the pope certing these? No, just Steve Grad.

I don't think it has as much to do with them being infallable, as it does that there is some level of trust that the company's guarantees will hold up, if it's discovered that they made a mistake..

travrosty · #11 03-04-2013, 12:42 PM

[QUOTE=novakjr;1098355]

Quote:

Originally Posted by travrosty

I don't think it has as much to do with them being infallable, as it does that there is some level of trust that the company's guarantees will hold up, if it's discovered that they made a mistake..

but they dont offer a guarantee, and they specifically say that their opinion is an opinion and no guarantee is in effect. although there are no openings at psa for the pope to authenticate at the current time, there is a pope position open, hmmm...

novakjr · #12 03-04-2013, 01:41 PM

[QUOTE=travrosty;1098356]

Quote:

Originally Posted by novakjr

but they dont offer a guarantee, and they specifically say that their opinion is an opinion and no guarantee is in effect. although there are no openings at psa for the pope to authenticate at the current time, there is a pope position open, hmmm...

my mistake. I thought psa had some sort of guarantee.. I didn't realize that it doesn't include autographs..

sylbry · #13 03-04-2013, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by novakjr

sylbry. Damn. Bo must love those official league balls. I almost wonder if ebay should ban all signed "official league" balls, unless they come with certification from an approved authenticator.. Personally, I'm getting tired of having to sort through them..Almost EVERY one is atrocious, and comes with some hokey holo, generic father-son COA, or Global cert..

This caught my attention because I know Bo's signature nearly as well as he does. Have spent over 20 years buying and selling his autograph. There are 20 different user ID's on ebay all selling the identical fake Bo Jackson signed items. And these same 20 user ID's are also selling fake autographs of other players as well. Who ever is behind this is committing a massive amount of fraud and ebay does nothing each and every time I report the items.

Why even bother allowing people to report items if you are not going to act on it? This isn't some unlucky/gullible individual who bought some crap certed by ACE, Global, Drew Max, or any of the other bumbling idiots and now just trying to dump it on a different unlucky/gullible individual. This is twenty unique ebay ID's all selling the same fake items. This is organized fraud on a large scale. Seems like a large problem to me.

RichardSimon · #14 03-04-2013, 02:44 PM

There are many out there who authenticate fakes all the time but do not call them bumbling idiots.
The ones who authenticate fakes consistently know exactly what they are doing.

Mr. Zipper · #15 03-04-2013, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sylbry

This is twenty unique ebay ID's all selling the same fake items. This is organized fraud on a large scale. Seems like a large problem to me.

There are a number of forgery rings operating on eBay. Regrettably, it's like whack-a-mole. You identify and stamp out a seller or two and they will all close down -- only to return under all new names a few weeks later.

These are organized criminals who are determined and make a lot of money through this enterprise. They are not just going to easily give up.

Mr. Zipper · #16 03-04-2013, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

The ones who authenticate fakes consistently know exactly what they are doing.

True. But it makes one wonder how much long-term vision they have.

Do they really think they can keep it up for any length of time before being outed? I highly doubt any of these FDEs are living on easy street from all the worthless COAs they've pumped out.

After the legal fees and having their names [rightfully] dragged through the mud, was it really worth it?

RichardSimon · #17 03-04-2013, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Zipper

True. But it makes one wonder how much long-term vision they have.

Do they really think they can keep it up for any length of time before being outed? I highly doubt any of these FDEs are living on easy street from all the worthless COAs they've pumped out.

After the legal fees and having their names [rightfully] dragged through the mud, was it really worth it?

They have been outed and still they churn out the garbage. I think they are making enough money to make it worth their while. Dragging their names through the mud on a hobby forum is a small price for them to pay, considering they care little about their names.

thetruthisoutthere · #18 03-04-2013, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daves_resale_shop

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lou-Gehrig-A...item1c308eb889

Gone.

sylbry · #19 03-07-2013, 07:08 AM

I know this is the wrong forum for Bo Jackson but ebay's incompetence when it comes to autographs is universal.

I reported this one yesterday and it is still active.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BO-JACKSON-R...item257b850539

Like I said, why even allow for the ability to report fake autographs if they have no intentions of acting upon it. But hey, it has one of those hologram thingies so it must be real, right?

Ebay's new slogan should be "supporting criminals since 1995."

RichardSimon · #20 03-07-2013, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sylbry

I know this is the wrong forum for Bo Jackson but ebay's incompetence when it comes to autographs is universal.

I reported this one yesterday and it is still active.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BO-JACKSON-R...item257b850539

Like I said, why even allow for the ability to report fake autographs if they have no intentions of acting upon it. But hey, it has one of those hologram thingies so it must be real, right?

Ebay's new slogan should be "supporting criminals since 1995."

EMR team members do have the ability to report fakes and have something done about them as long as ebay's precious authenticators are not involved.
Ebay likes to give the illusion that anyone can report a fake and that someone will look at it by giving you a link to click. That is just an illusion. The reporting of fakes is a worthless endeavor unless you are an EMR member. Ebay wants to create the illusion that they care. They really don't care all that much.

sylbry · #21 03-07-2013, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

EMR team members do have the ability to report fakes and have something done about them as long as ebay's precious authenticators are not involved.
Ebay likes to give the illusion that anyone can report a fake and that someone will look at it by giving you a link to click. That is just an illusion. The reporting of fakes is a worthless endeavor unless you are an EMR member. Ebay wants to create the illusion that they care. They really don't care all that much.

I could see ebay being resistant about doing something with autographs authenticated by individuals/companies they deem as credible. But what I don't understand is why they don't take action against sellers of obvious fakes with bogus LOA's. Hey ebay, here is a tip. If you can not read the LOA in the photo or there is no contact info on the LOA, it is bogus. And so is the associated item.

It's frustrating. Goes back to your point of you want to help but in the end some people really don't want your help.

cubsfan-budman · #22 03-07-2013, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sylbry

I could see ebay being resistant about doing something with autographs authenticated by individuals/companies they deem as credible. But what I don't understand is why they don't take action against sellers of obvious fakes with bogus LOA's. Hey ebay, here is a tip. If you can not read the LOA in the photo or there is no contact info on the LOA, it is bogus. And so is the associated item.

It's frustrating. Goes back to your point of you want to help but in the end some people really don't want your help.

FYI, I agree with what you're saying nearly 100%. Good luck getting those crappy Bo Jackson autos removed.

But that last link you provided did come with a LOA signed by the authenticator with his name, address and phone number on it.

Plinvestments · #23 03-07-2013, 08:31 AM

I wonder how many listings would be removed if they just did a keyword search for everyone on their banned list?

GrayGhost · #24 03-07-2013, 08:46 AM

What is frustrating is that there are likely many autographs that ARE REAL and don't have the "Ebay authenticators" list COA with them. Not to say the "banned ones" fit the bill, but those who sell a legit sig with NO COA, because they don't believe in one, or issue their own. It's difficult to seperate the obvious good from the "maybe good".

I recently sold an inexpensive HOF autograph and had no COA w it, just that I knew it was good. Buyer sent it to PSA or JSA, one of em, just to "be sure", primarily in case of resale to "have a certificate".

When we get people to not think the world revolves around "needing a certificate", we will be better off IMO.

RichardSimon · #25 03-07-2013, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sylbry

I could see ebay being resistant about doing something with autographs authenticated by individuals/companies they deem as credible. But what I don't understand is why they don't take action against sellers of obvious fakes with bogus LOA's. Hey ebay, here is a tip. If you can not read the LOA in the photo or there is no contact info on the LOA, it is bogus. And so is the associated item.

It's frustrating. Goes back to your point of you want to help but in the end some people really don't want your help.

That takes money time and effort on ebay's part. You think they want to spend money, time and effort to do that? No way, no how.

RichardSimon · #26 03-07-2013, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrayGhost

When we get people to not think the world revolves around "needing a certificate", we will be better off IMO.

But when large companies spend large sums of money to convince the public that you do "need a certificate" and also denigrate those who do not have a certificate, then the public will act the way that they do.

travrosty · #27 03-07-2013, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

But when large companies spend large sums of money to convince the public that you do "need a certificate" and also denigrate those who do not have a certificate, then the public will act the way that they do.

they groomed the public to 'need' the certificate, by casting dispersions on those that dont use psa or jsa. psa's own website asks people to cast a weary eye on those who do not use them. they say 'people' will ask questions as to your reasons why you dont use psa.

they also say that reputable dealers use psa. but one's reputation is earned not by pawning off authentication responsibilities onto another party, but by taking that responsibility themselves.

the most 'reputable' dealers are long time dealers that know what they sell and dont need the psa's of the world to 'bail' them out on the liability side. dealers will say "well psa says its good" so its no returns. i am not responsibile. And psa will say. "it's just our opinion' so we are not responsible. no one wants to be responsible anymore.

GrayGhost · #28 03-07-2013, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by travrosty

they groomed the public to 'need' the certificate, by casting dispersions on those that dont use psa or jsa. psa's own website asks people to cast a weary eye on those who do not use them. they say 'people' will ask questions as to your reasons why you dont use psa.

they also say that reputable dealers use psa. but one's reputation is earned not by pawning off authentication responsibilities onto another party, but by taking that responsibility themselves.

the most 'reputable' dealers are long time dealers that know what they sell and dont need the psa's of the world to 'bail' them out on the liability side. dealers will say "well psa says its good" so its no returns. i am not responsibile. And psa will say. "it's just our opinion' so we are not responsible. no one wants to be responsible anymore.

I have learned so much about the autograph world on here. Despite you sometimes being a bit "overzealous" Mr. Roste, this is probably the biggiest thing I have learned on here, what you just wrote.

RichardSimon · #29 03-07-2013, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by travrosty

dealers will say "well psa says its good" so its no returns. i am not responsibile. And psa will say. "it's just our opinion' so we are not responsible. no one wants to be responsible anymore.

I had posted a poll here a while ago. I agreed with the poll conclusion.
The dealer has your money, if something is wrong, the dealer is responsible.

JimStinson · #30 03-07-2013, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Zipper

True. But it makes one wonder how much long-term vision they have.

Do they really think they can keep it up for any length of time before being outed? I highly doubt any of these FDEs are living on easy street from all the worthless COAs they've pumped out.

After the legal fees and having their names [rightfully] dragged through the mud, was it really worth it?

Good point and thats why there are so many "Autograph Dealers" that no one has ever heard of, its because they are always morphing into something else. Changing the names of their companies or using unsuspecting retailers to sell their goods.

That why the important question regarding a seller is HOW LONG HAS HE BEEN SELLING AUTOGRAPHS ??? Most reputable dealers (and there are at least several) have been in business a long long time , far longer in most cases than the authentication "experts" who often turn to these dealers for opinions and advice (although they won;t tell you that).
A reputable dealer not only gives his opinion and expertise when he sells an autograph and uses all resources at his disposal using all due diligence but puts his hard earned reputation on the line and stands behind everything he sells. Not for a month or a year but for life !

And if anyone is new and can't tell the good guys from the bad guys , just ask a collecting veteran "Who are the guys that know their stuff ?" they will be happy to tell you.

The hard facts behind ANY new business is that 80% will fail the first year and of the 20% that make it 80% of those will fold over the first three years. So when you see someone thats been around for decades and especially in this business/ hobby that fact should speak for itself
_____________________________
jim@stinsonsports.com

GrayGhost · #31 03-07-2013, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimstinson

good point and thats why there are so many "autograph dealers" that no one has ever heard of, its because they are always morphing into something else. Changing the names of their companies or using unsuspecting retailers to sell their goods.

That why the important question regarding a seller is how long has he been selling autographs ??? Most reputable dealers (and there are at least several) have been in business a long long time , far longer in most cases than the authentication "experts" who often turn to these dealers for opinions and advice (although they won;t tell you that).
A reputable dealer not only gives his opinion and expertise when he sells an autograph and uses all resources at his disposal using all due diligence but puts his hard earned reputation on the line and stands behind everything he sells. Not for a month or a year but for life !

And if anyone is new and can't tell the good guys from the bad guys , just ask a collecting veteran "who are the guys that know their stuff ?" they will be happy to tell you.

The hard facts behind any new business is that 80% will fail the first year and of the 20% that make it 80% of those will fold over the first three years. So when you see someone thats been around for decades and especially in this business/ hobby that fact should speak for itself

_____________________________
jim@stinsonsports.com

+100

sylbry · #32 06-30-2013, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sylbry

Looks like PSA is now starting to authenticate these lousy fakes.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BO-JACKSON-S...60686380483%26

And I have continued my crusade against these fakes on ebay to no avail.

travrosty · #33 07-01-2013, 09:49 AM

ebay wont pull of the fakes, that is the problem. grad admitted it, spence admitted it, and they are the authenticators!

fakes everywhere with boxing, they dont care. emr's report it, who cares? no one cares over there.

--------------------------------------------------
from mr. cycleback's interview with Spence.

SPENCE: Based on what comes in for authentication that has derived through eBay there is serious reason for concern.* They basically take a caveat emptor approach and let people take their chances. If I was to get involved in a purchase I would use a credit card so that I have a way of placing a charge back on the vendor if returning the item proved to be a hassle.* Ebay has turned non-business people into a swarm of mail order companies that has been difficult at best to regulate.

------------------------------------------
relevent quotes from Grad on a collectors forum.

I too, have seen way too
many fakes on e-bay. *Yes, I have notified them, but to no avail. *

. . . . . .
*
E-bay, will never do anything about the problem. *Their main concern is making
money.

.....

Thank you for your time.

Steve Grad

----------------

Now when the two biggest guys in authentication volume say that about ebay, what does that tell you?

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