Where are all the super rare cards?

[Yankeefan51]

With the exception of four auction houses and dealers who price items for more than 3x their value, it is unusual to see ultra high grade rare sale. Almost of the cards that I sill collect are valued at $1000 or more (PSA 8 Cracker Fed Federal Leaguers go for $600-700).

In the past two years, I have only seen one card on BST that meets my standards in terms of grade and rarity.

Despite the fact that are a large number of collectors who enjoy low grade
cards, I think there needs to be more of market for buying selling and trading the best of the best. I have more than 400 cards ( pre 1950) in my collection and fewer than 10% are below a 6. In terms of value, appearance
and opportunity condition matters. Our return when we auction a rare item
is 300-500% more for PSA 8 or SGC 92 than lower grade cards. In fact, there is a countless number of Non graded, PSA 1-4 cards and with few exceptions they do not sell or sell at 40% of book.

There is a true distinction between creased old card and those ultra high grade rare cards. The wise collector/investor focuses on quality. It is too bad that those who appreciate the best rarely comment on the Board nor
do they communicate with other important collectors. Like the great whales these collectors will continueto build the best collection and consume thousands of little fish along the way.

Bruce

[Kenny Cole]

I think a lot of "important" collectors(whatever that means) communicate with each other pretty frequently. If I were "we" I suppose I'd be wondering why "we' weren't invited to the discussion. My guess is that 'we" are still accurately viewed as being a prick.

[RCMcKenzie]

heritagead170.jpg


After I won an m116 McGuire from a weekend Heritage auction, they sent me this flyer. I thought you or Wonka must have bought an M116 McGuire from them.

[Cardboard Junkie]

The Bruces are probably just a little testy today......a very little testis.

[deadballfreaK]

Originally Posted by Yankeefan51

With the exception of four auction houses and dealers who price items for more than 3x their value, it is unusual to see ultra high grade rare sale. Almost of the cards that I sill collect are valued at $1000 or more (PSA 8 Cracker Fed Federal Leaguers go for $600-700).

In the past two years, I have only seen one card on BST that meets my standards in terms of grade and rarity.

Despite the fact that are a large number of collectors who enjoy low grade
cards, I think there needs to be more of market for buying selling and trading the best of the best. I have more than 400 cards ( pre 1950) in my collection and fewer than 10% are below a 6. In terms of value, appearance
and opportunity condition matters. Our return when we auction a rare item
is 300-500% more for PSA 8 or SGC 92 than lower grade cards. In fact, there is a countless number of Non graded, PSA 1-4 cards and with few exceptions they do not sell or sell at 40% of book.

There is a true distinction between creased old card and those ultra high grade rare cards. The wise collector/investor focuses on quality. It is too bad that those who appreciate the best rarely comment on the Board nor
do they communicate with other important collectors. Like the great whales these collectors will continueto build the best collection and consume thousands of little fish along the way.

Bruce

Damn, I feel bad that I am clogging up this site with pissy little $50-100 cards. Perhaps we need a new site for the elite. The term collector/investor makes me gag. That means strictly investor.

[HRBAKER]

[Matthew H]

It still surprises me that such an old school hobby veteran would be collecting "rare for the grade" nonsense...

[teetwoohsix]

Here's my contribution. The crease makes it important. It's got a high grade super duper rare crease straight through the forehead. What a rare gem, probably worth a trillion.

[cardaholic]

Good. Go find some R308s in PSA 8 or higher. Once you've given up on that, how about Propagandas Montiel or Ovenca Venezuela in PSA 8 or higher.

[EvilKing00]

I have never seen a crease at that exact spot, very nice

[Bocabirdman]

All of us here understand or "need" to understand that there are financial considerations involved in this hobby. All cards are eventually re-sold.

Some folks just look at it differently.

A Collector doesn't let the potential return on his investment get in the way of his collecting.

An Investor doesn't let collecting get in the way of the potential return on his investment.

[autograf]

ah....nothing like a little dose of 'I'm better'n you' to start off the work week........

[the 'stache]

Bruce, I'm going to guess many of these high grade cards are just being held in private collections, and aren't going to see the light of day anytime soon.

If I had the financial wherewithal to afford some of these, I'd buy, and keep them in a safe. They'd never see an auction house, or Ebay.

[sylbry]

Proof that money can't buy class.

[slidekellyslide]

This is Bruce's classic trolling behavior...do not take the bait.

[tiger8mush]

Originally Posted by Yankeefan51

Like the great whales these collectors will continueto build the best collection and consume thousands of little fish along the way.

Even the greatest of whales have one thing in common with the poor little fish ...

[Leon]

Bruce- Knowing you most likely won't come back to this thread to respond I will respond and feed the troll in you anyway. Many collectors collect for things other than the almighty dollar. Personally, I collect for many other reasons but with an eye on value too. If you had seen all of the alledgedly tampered with holders I have seen in the last 48 hours you would give pause to your ultra high grade cards quest. There are people actively tampering with holders and passing them off to people with your mindset. Good luck in the hunt....and btw, I will stick to my pr-vg+ collection and be happy all of the time. Here is one you won't find, let alone in high grade.

[vintagecpa]

Originally Posted by Leon

...If you had seen all of the alledgedly tampered with holders I have seen in the last 48 hours you would give pause to your ultra high grade cards quest. ...

Any chance of throwing us a bone with some juicy details or is this part of something ongoing?

[Matthew H]

Wow Leon, I didn't know that existed! Thanks for sharing. (not as cool as PSA 8 cracker jack fed leaguers, but still cool)

[T206Collector]

Are I sure this is not just a copy and paste job from a Archive thread?

Leon already made this point, but a lot of us regulars here can support it -- 1-of-1 and extremely valuable:

[atx840]

High grade does nothing for me.....I'd rather have the Boston Garter strip.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by vintagecpa

Any chance of throwing us a bone with some juicy details or is this part of something ongoing?

Let's hold off for now. I don't feel like going into the gory details in this thread but I have spoken with the ringleader of a ring of counterfeiters. I believe He is good at what he does too....this has to do with the whole Den Prak thing. Hopefully more people will go to jail soon.

[rhettyeakley]

Bruce: Look at my cards the numbers all go to eleven. Look, right across the board, eleven, eleven, eleven and...
Us: Oh, I see. And most cards only go up to ten?
Bruce: Exactly.
Us: Does that mean it's better? Is it any better?
Bruce: Well, it's one better, isn't it? It's not ten... Where can you go from there? Where?
Us: I don't know.
Bruce: Nowhere. Exactly. What we do is, if we need that extra push over the cliff, you know what we do?
Us: Buy another eleven.
Bruce: Eleven. Exactly. One better.
Us: Why don't you just collect what you like regardless of the little number on the flip and do whatever makes one happy?
[Pause.]
Bruce: These go to eleven.

[Sean]

Excellent. A Spinal Tap reference. But I'm sure that the wise collector/investor won't get it.

[bobbyw8469]

In the past two years, I have only seen one card on BST that meets my standards in terms of grade and rarity.

I can only speak for myself and my experiences. I have high grade, rare cards that I am 100% positive would fit in your collection! However, I will NEVER sell them on the BST board. I recently had a 1959 Topps Mantle PSA 7 for $775 on the BST board. Not a nibble - nothing. I turned around and put in on Ebay where it sold for the low $900's. That is par for the course. Not that I am knocking the BST boards. I have sold some items on there. Just for the higher dollar items, most collectors are gonna follow the sellers who bring them the most money. It is NOT the BST board. It is PWCC, Probstein, REA, Greg Bussineau, Legendary, et al. That is why those four auction houses you speak of seem to be the only places getting high grade stuff. Because sellers like myself and others are sending them our high grade stuff.

[CW]

Screw it -- I'll take the bait.

There is a true distinction between creased old card and those ultra high grade rare cards.

Yes, one card is unaltered while the other has likely been worked on.

It is too bad that those who appreciate the best rarely comment on the Board nor
do they communicate with other important collectors.

Maybe start your own messageboard rather than post here and whine? You can even call it "Net54 for Important Collectors".

Like the great whales these collectors will continueto build the best collection and consume thousands of little fish along the way.

This might be the most idiotic statement I've read on these forums. And that's saying A LOT!

C.huck W.o|ff

[Pinstriper780]

Originally Posted by tiger8mush

Even the greatest of whales have one thing in common with the poor little fish ...

Very true, the end result is always the same.

[bobbyw8469]

Recently Sean had a Clemente rookie PSA 7.5 on the BST boad for $3,500. He too, didn't get a nibble. He sold it on Ebay for around $4,800. The BST board is just not where you are gonna find those cards that you are describing.

[murcerfan]

If only rare cards were easy to find.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

Recently Sean had a Clemente rookie PSA 7.5 on the BST boad for $3,500. He too, didn't get a nibble. He sold it on Ebay for around $4,800. The BST board is just not where you are gonna find those cards that you are describing.

This issue has been going on for several years, since the downturn in the hobby. Collectors won't buy a straight sale (private) card, which is high end, as they think they will pay less in auction. The mentality being that if someone else is willing to pay 5000 at auction, then I will pay 5200. But if it were offered for 4700 privately, then no way.....as I might get it cheaper in an auction setting. A lot of us have had cards that won't sell privately, or on a BST, sell for more in auction. It has less to do with the venue as much as it does the way it's being sold.

[brob28]

The market for these ultra rare high quality items is just fine. You see less of them simply because there are less of them and most buyers of ultra high end items (whether cards or other items) prefer to be discrete.

[Vintagecatcher]

Bruces' Quote: It is too bad that those who appreciate the best rarely comment on the Board nor do they communicate with other important collectors.

Bruce,

Wouldn't you be one of the collectors that rarely comment on the board?

Maybe the other collectors haven't communicated with you because they figured you were too busy talkng with the other Bruces.


Patrick

[Matthew H]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

Recently Sean had a Clemente rookie PSA 7.5 on the BST boad for $3,500. He too, didn't get a nibble. He sold it on Ebay for around $4,800. The BST board is just not where you are gonna find those cards that you are describing.

Those cards are either not that popular here or those who want them already have them. 5k cards can sell on the BST here they just need to be closer to what is manly collected by this community.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by Yankeefan51

It is too bad that those who appreciate the best rarely comment on the Board

Oh, if only that was true in every case...

In all seriousness, if you really feel that way about the board and its membership, why not stop posting and go away, since it is obvious that no one meeting your criteria for importance posts here. I guarantee you won't be missing any PSA 8 Just So Cy Young cards on the BST board.

[EGreenwood]

Bruce:

Instead of bemoaning the lack of communication, why not initiate the dialog? I personally don't have the wherewithal to play in the ultra-rare, high grade space; however, I do enjoy the samples that are shared. The background and research that go into these posts are often fascinating reads. For example, the Boston Gartner strip is stunning, as far as men in skivvies go.

For me personally, a low-grade T206 AB HOF'er is a good score for my collection, and I am ok with that.

Erik

[Bored5000]

Originally Posted by Leon

If you had seen all of the alledgedly tampered with holders I have seen in the last 48 hours you would give pause to your ultra high grade cards quest. There are people actively tampering with holders and passing them off to people with your mindset.

To me, it requires at least some suspension of disbelief to believe that 80-year-old cards or 100+ year-old cards show up in "mint" condition or "near-mint" condition. There are just too many cases of doctoring or fraud IMO to put faith in a card that old being what it seems.

[wonkaticket]

Bruce,

You are incorrect. In fact there has been a huge influx of high grade, scarce to downright rare material into the market over the past few years. Many “Whales” (LOL) would agree in fact much of it came from “Whales”. However in order to obtain such material one has to actually bid, win and then purchase such items.

If you’re wondering why there isn’t an influx of high quality material at half price or amazing deals that makes much more sense given your modus operandi. As a consolation you’re not alone on this we all wonder how we can get amazing items on the cheap.

In regards to why board members don’t post amazing “world” class pickups it’s mainly because we are all penniless hacks. However you can be the game changer Bruce looking forward to your pickups unless you’re the under bidder yet again?

Cheers,

John

[oldjudge]

Bruce-For the life of me, I can never understand the reason for posts like this. If you love the hobby, and I'm pretty sure you do, you have to realize that it is made up of a panoply of people with very different collecting interests, and various levels of disposable income. Just because someone does not collect what you collect, or has less money to spend on cards than you do, does not diminish what they do in the least. In fact, many people who you are mocking in your post, because of their love of the hobby, allocate a higher percentage of their available funds to their collecting pursuits than you do. Do you think statements like you have made would have ever come from the lips of Jefferson Burdick, or Buck Barker, or Keith Mitchell? I don't. Be a mensch!

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Bruce-For the life of me, I can never understand the reason for posts like this.

Because he is a sad, lonely internet troll starving for attention in any way he can get it...oh and also this post will result in at least 2 ultra high grade cards for their collection.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Bruce-For the life of me, I can never understand the reason for posts like this. If you love the hobby, and I'm pretty sure you do, you have to realize that it is made up of a panoply of people with very different collecting interests, and various levels of disposable income. Just because someone does not collect what you collect, or has less money to spend on cards than you do, does not diminish what they do in the least. In fact, many people who you are mocking in your post, because of their love of the hobby, allocate a higher percentage of their available funds to their collecting pursuits than you do. Do you think statements like you have made would have ever come from the lips of Jefferson Burdick, or Buck Barker, or Keith Mitchell? I don't. Be a mensch!

+1

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

Because he is a sad, lonely internet troll starving for attention in any way he can get it...oh and also this post will result in at least 2 ultra high grade cards for their collection.

Right -- the response from Bruce to all the vitriol he solicits (whenever, if ever, it comes) is invariably how successful the "provocative" post was in helping him acquire awesome cards.

If one had to follow in Bruce's footsteps to acquire mind-blowingly rare baseball cards, I believe he would have few if any followers.

[Bocabirdman]

I sure am glad that the original poster took the time to start this thread. It has been a L-o-o-o-ng time since we had something or someone to bark about around here.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Leon

This issue has been going on for several years, since the downturn in the hobby. Collectors won't buy a straight sale (private) card, which is high end, as they think they will pay less in auction. The mentality being that if someone else is willing to pay 5000 at auction, then I will pay 5200. But if it were offered for 4700 privately, then no way.....as I might get it cheaper in an auction setting. A lot of us have had cards that won't sell privately, or on a BST, sell for more in auction. It has less to do with the venue as much as it does the way it's being sold.

Show me a Cracker Jack Cobb and I will show you a straight sale.

[glchen]

I think Bruce is looking for comment from high dollar collectors. This post is similar to Joe Orlando's article in the current SMR: Link

[T206Collector]

From the Joe Orlando link: "After a brief stint in the minor leagues, Orlando obtained a Juris Doctor from Whittier Law School in Southern California in the spring of 1999."

What "minor leagues" did Orlando play in? I cannot find any reference to him anywhere....

[glchen]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

From the Joe Orlando link: "After a brief stint in the minor leagues, Orlando obtained a Juris Doctor from Whittier Law School in Southern California in the spring of 1999."

What "minor leagues" did Orlando play in? I cannot find any reference to him anywhere....

According to his bio (Link), he played for the Antelope Valley Ravens of the Golden State League.

[Cardboard Junkie]

Does a card exist with J. O. (Or can someone photo shop one?)? Would love to have one...slabbed by SGC.Dave.

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by glchen

According to his bio (Link), he played for the Antelope Valley Ravens of the Golden State League.

The Golden State League is not a "minor league" -- it is true that it is professional baseball, but it is not affiliated with Major or Minor League Baseball.

[Yankeefan51]

I am also amused by how angry and child like some responses are.

If you want to collect beaters, shop at K Mart, drink cheap beer and hang out with street hookers, that is your business.

Privately we received four letters supporting our position. Do remember that
impressionist painting retain their value while most art does not.

There is no glory in collecting PSA 9 or PSA 1. Not all cards are altered. In fact, what needs to be altered is the perverted little minds of the street thugs
that enjoy attacking me. There are certainly rare cards that can not be found in great condition...but then along comes the E 98 find. Our Four Base Hits and Just So were graded 20 years and are still the highest samples graded.

Like the unemployed, drug using socialists who feel a sense of entitlement,
I could care less what the general population thinks. I knew most of the star collectors well. In fact. I obtained first Boston Garter from Buck Barker,

The question raised is why are so few high grade rare cards offered. When some of the "posters" talk about class, there is upper class, middle class and low class. This special group of lost dirt bags are a class of their own...no class. I hope they enjoy the smells of the city, bad food and their drugs. At least, I know that theirs is life doomed to failure and tragedy. That thought alone is well worth the price of these lost souls attempt to express a cohesive thought from a limited and sad mine.

[barrysloate]

Come on Bruce, that wasn't the right way to respond. If that's how you feel why do you even bother to post? I could go on and on but I won't. There's room for a healthy discussion even among people who disagree with you.