T206 with Brown Old Mill Back Sells for... $51?

[CharleyBrown]

Ouch. Saw this posted at CU.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/140991048340?orig_cvip=true

and a PWCC auction too. Talk about money left on the table.

[g_vezina_c55]

amazing purchase for the buyer !!

[ullmandds]

This has been/is being discussed in this thread:

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=173902

[bbsports]

You think this is really a brown Old Mill? Maybe your right, maybe not. Yes, brown Old Mill cards can only be authentic since they were taken from uncut sheets. Brent has been in cards for many years & has been dealing with T206 cards for a long time. Why didn't he list the card as a brown Old Mill in his description? I guess PSA doesn't label their brown Old Mill backs either. I know SGC does. I would take this card to SGC & have them label the card as a brown Old Mill. If they do, this buyer got one of the best steals of a lifetime. Congrats if the card is identified as a brown Old Mill.

[ullmandds]

it's definitely a real brown old mill.

[g_vezina_c55]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

it's definitely a real brown old mill.

x 2

[wonkaticket]

Actually $51.55 plus shipping.

Funny I never read that board what a mess. I do like how the guy named "FKW" announces that "he" was the person who outed Chan and the fake Old Mill Overprints on here to us "clowns" not Jim Rivera, Dan McKee and I. Sorry Jim and Dan we didn't do anything.

http://forums.collectors.com/message...04&STARTPAGE=3

The Internet is fun, love it.

Cheers,

John

[conor912]

Knowing nothing about t206's, what should this have gone for?

[Sean]

Originally Posted by conor912

Knowing nothing about t206's, what should this have gone for?

$10 to $12 thousand, or more if a couple serious spenders really want it.

[Cardboard Junkie]

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

Actually $51.55 plus shipping.

Funny I never read that board what a mess. I do like how the guy named "FKW" announces that "he" was the person who outed Chan and the fake Old Mill Overprints on here to us "clowns" not Jim Rivera, Dan McKee and I. Sorry Jim and Dan we didn't do anything.

http://forums.collectors.com/message...04&STARTPAGE=3

The Internet is fun, love it.

Cheers,

John

Would that be Frank K3aloh@ W@rd? Dave

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by conor912

Knowing nothing about t206's, what should this have gone for?

Connor it really depends on timing, market demand etc. for me no Brown Old Mill should trade below say 8-10k depending on quality etc.

Even when backs were not on fire and folks were on the fence about color variants like brown Lenox and brown Old Mill. The Brown Old Mill was on most everyone's want list and traded in the 3-8k range this was many years ago. Now with more folks in the pool and more folks accepting the Brown Lenox and Old Mill as a legitimate backs I think the prices would be much higher.

For me this is a very nice example one of only two known Sid Smiths and the better of the two. I think this card could easily fetch 10k+ perhaps more with the right players in play at auction.

However in the end they are only worth what someone is willing to pay as is the case with most collectibles.

Hope this helps, I own a nice example and offer of 10k wouldn't peak my interest FWIW.



Cheers,

John

[conor912]

Originally Posted by Sean

$10 to $12 thousand, or more if a couple serious spenders really want it.

whoa mama. and because it sold for so little, the consignor is actually gonna pay 20% in fees on it.

[thehoodedcoder]

Originally Posted by conor912

whoa mama. and because it sold for so little, the consignor is actually gonna pay 20% in fees on it.

LOL. that is a good point.

kevin

[Cardboard Junkie]

That's a beautiful card, John. Makes me wanna cry....anybody else remember when back brands didn't mean sqaut? How times change.
John that card is 20K+ imo. Dave.

[cyseymour]

$51... I knew the back bubble would burst.

[RCMcKenzie]

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

Actually $51.55 plus shipping.

Funny I never read that board what a mess. I do like how the guy named "FKW" announces that "he" was the person who outed Chan and the fake Old Mill Overprints on here to us "clowns" not Jim Rivera, Dan McKee and I. Sorry Jim and Dan we didn't do anything.

http://forums.collectors.com/message...04&STARTPAGE=3

The Internet is fun, love it.

Cheers,

John

I think that most folks reading the chat board know that Jim, Dan, and Frank are all experts in this hobby. No reason they can't all chime in and disagree from time to time. I've learned a lot from all 3 of them. I sort of agree with Ward that T206 brown Old Mill is not really where I would want to direct my hobby funds.

[wonkaticket]

RC, I think you miss the point it was not Frank who outed the overprints as fake to this forum. Yet across the street he claims he was the one, not Jim, Dan and I. That was what I found funny.

[RCMcKenzie]

John, I'm not aware of that part of the situation. I can't speak to that as I wasn't around.

I guess my point is that I would not want to pay a large amount of money for a card that could sell so easily for $51 on ebay.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

RC, I think you miss the point it was not Frank who outed the overprints as fake to this forum. Yet across the street he claims he was the one, not Jim, Dan and I. That was what I found funny.

Surprised to see that he posts over there. I thought he fell off the face of the Earth.

[nolemmings]

I've always had a lot of respect for Frank Ward''s views on cards. FWIW, he did state his opinion that the black overprints were fakes on this forum a little more than five years ago. Where that stands on the timeline of who outed what is unknown and of little or no concern to me.

[Anthony S.]

Goddamned recessive genes (color blind). For the life of me I can't tell a Brown Old Mill from a normal one. Nor should I be allowed to dress myself. But on the plus side, I often see green sunsets.

[Rich Klein]

D.B. Cooper -- now that is a blast from the past. How did you survive the jump from the plane awyway?

[BuffettFan]

Originally Posted by Anthony S.

Goddamned recessive genes (color blind). For the life of me I can't tell a Brown Old Mill from a normal one.

+1

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by Cardboard Junkie

That's a beautiful card, John. Makes me wanna cry....anybody else remember when back brands didn't mean sqaut? How times change.
John that card is 20K+ imo. Dave.

I've been collecting T206s for 16 years and I still don't get the allure of the different backs. For whatever reason, they just never resonated with me. I guess in this case it works to my economic benefit.

On the flip side, I never thought I'd be an autograph collector, and here I am pining after these little cardboard treasures with someone's signature on them. So, I missed the back-desire curse, but got struck by the signed-card curse. I guess it's "pick your poison."

[Cardboard Junkie]

"Pick your poison." I like that, so true, so true. Dave.

[mrvster]

this card is a true beauty

btw.....my poison is SCRAP!!!

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

I've always had a lot of respect for Frank Ward''s views on cards. FWIW, he did state his opinion that the black overprints were fakes on this forum a little more than five years ago. Where that stands on the timeline of who outed what is unknown and of little or no concern to me.

Todd, correct Frank sure did bring this issue up three days after the group of us brought it to the boards attention.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=112199

[ThoseBackPages]

is it at all possible that the scan was brightened up (as he tends to do on his listings) and appears to be Brown, but is really black?

[nolemmings]

I don't know what was intended by your link, other than Frank's post therein claimed to have mentioned something about the backs in 2005,6 or 7. The post I saw where he opined them to be fake was in August 2008.

08-07-2008, 11:14 AM
Archive
Administrator

Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,919
Default New discovery of Old Mill Double Bars Overprint Back
Posted By: fkw

The strange thing with this screwup missprint is the others Ive seen (single and double) are printed in red, not black.
The red one is a Sweet Caporal overprint mistakenly printed on a brown Old Mill back. (The double had the sheet flipped and then reprinted)

Makes no sense to have red and black ones. I smell a fake

Seems to me he called these fakes at that time. I didn't dig much further into this, because again, I don't care all that much.

[wonkaticket]

My point was for a guy who so easily was on top of these as fakes amazing he just waited around? Lots of folks raised eyebrows on these when they popped up hence why some of us dug into it. These cards were discussed and questioned in circles for years no surprise on that and Frank was part of those discussions. I also like Frank. This may be splitting hairs but that’s a big difference that you were suspect of them as others were to you were the one who brought the fakes to the community’s attention fully. Which is how Franks post reads…across the street.

Again why bother you don’t care too much about this stuff. Sorry to pull you away from more pressing things thanks for taking the time.

[nolemmings]

Ah, so that was your point. I'm sure that's how everyone took it but me, sorry I didn't get it. Looked to me like someone who wanted to blow his own horn and take a swipe at a guy who is pretty widely respected but chooses not to post here anymore for some reason--but I guess I'm just being obtuse.

[wonkaticket]

If it’s a swipe to say hey wait a minute you may have questioned these cards as not legit in the past as did others, but you weren’t the sole person who proved it like your post reads. Then I guess it’s a swipe.

Also for the record I’m blowing a horn for the others involved as it wasn’t a sole effort.

Unless of course I’m on the CU forum then it was all me baby.

[nolemmings]

Without question you belong on the US Olympic backpedaling team.

[wonkaticket]

That’s great news we can car pool to the events. Because you’re sure to take gold in “Limited Reading Comprehension” Todd.

Not sure how much more clear I can be for you.

Frank’s post comes off as he was the man who pointed this all out to everyone here. That is certainly not the case intended or not. As I outlined above.

[Rich Klein]

How many of the readers of this thread wish they had seen this listing

[nolemmings]

Yes Wonka, reading comprehension has always been tough for me.

So allow me to review. Your first post, #7, makes it appear as if you don’t know it’s Frank Ward you’re criticizing “I do like how the guy named "FKW" announces that "he" was the person who outed Chan and the fake Old Mill Overprints on here to us "clowns" not Jim Rivera, Dan McKee and I”.

When Frank’s name pops up, you then let RC McKensie know “RC, I think you miss the point it was not Frank who outed the overprints as fake to this forum. Yet across the street he claims he was the one, not Jim, Dan and I.” Again make sure you get your name out there.

After I mention that Frank had stated his opinion about these being fakes five years ago you point me to a 2009 link saying he did so three days after you (post #27). Apparently you have some issues with how to count back five, so I actually quoted the 2008 post from Frank that apparently preceded yours by about nine months. Seems maybe Frank did mention it first. No matter, we’ve still now all got to see three more posts from you about your remarkable contribution.

So you next turn it to not who was first, but who did more. You start by saying “My point was for a guy who so easily was on top of these as fakes amazing he just waited around?” (Post #30) Yes I will admit that reading comprehension tests me here, as I struggle to understand what the hell that means. Apparently now Frank is blamed for not providing the in-depth, hard-hitting reporting that might entitle him to any credit--never mind that in his comment across the street he merely states that he first brought it to the board’s attention, not that he had created a mini-series on the subject. You then turn all collegial and discuss how these had always been discussed for years and Frank must have been part of that. If you would go back and read the thread I pointed out to you from 2008, you would see that Dan McKee responded by saying that he and his father had never heard of the red-bar Old Mill overprints until Frank mentioned them. Hmm, seems like just maybe Frank did bring something to the party here.

So far be it for me to suggest you are backpedaling, that you didn’t know who the hell you were talking about and then what the hell the subject was– I did get a refresher on your monumental contributions to the hobby, which is always worth the price of admission.

[T205 GB]

Insert train wreck pic




"........." (don't have one available at this time)

[Leon]

Originally Posted by T205 GB

Insert train wreck pic




"........." (don't have one available at this time)

In my collection just for this occasion....

[scottglevy]

Having been the victim of the Chan Scam personally. I can assure you that John along with Jim and Dan each had key roles in outing the overprints and ultimately ensuring their destruction/removal from the hobby. I am very grateful for the role that each of these gentleman played.

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

RC, I think you miss the point it was not Frank who outed the overprints as fake to this forum. Yet across the street he claims he was the one, not Jim, Dan and I. That was what I found funny.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by scottglevy

Having been the victim of the Chan Scam personally. I can assure you that John along with Jim and Dan had they key roles in outing the overprints and ultimately ensuring their destruction/removal from the hobby. I am very grateful for the role that each of these gentleman played.

Agreed Scott. Those 3 individuals played the major role in solving the case. I also think we owe some thanks to the FBI for taking an interest in it too. I don't think they get the credit they should for helping to clean up our hobby recently. We all should be appreciative. Thanks to all concerned, that helped.

[wonkaticket]

Todd,

You know for a guy who "didn't care all that much" about what I pointed out you sure have been spending a lot of time arguing and not grasping what was said.

Are you Frank's PR agent?

I thought it was pretty simple so I'll post it again.

"Frank’s post comes off as he was the man who pointed this all out to everyone here. That is certainly not the case intended or not. As I outlined above."

One more time. The outing of these cards as fake was not a domino effect set in motion on Net54 by Frank as his post came off to me across the street. Quite a few folks worked very hard on outing 100% that these cards were fake. Taking it from water cooler gut feelings to fact. I don't think pointing this out in response to his comment is any less arrogant or self serving than Franks comment across the way.

Have a great day Todd.

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by Leon

Agreed Scott. Those 3 individuals played the major role in solving the case. I also think we owe some thanks to the FBI for taking an interest in it too. I don't think they get the credit they should for helping to clean up our hobby recently. We all should be appreciative. Thanks to all concerned, that helped.

+ 1 to the good folks at the FBI, agree these guys are really working hard to clean up a hobby for us.

Even though sometimes we just seem to run back and do business with the ones they are trying to protect us from.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

....
Even though sometimes we just seem to run back and do business with the ones they are trying to protect us from.

Only if they have something we want though!!

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by Leon

Only if they have something we want though!!

Well yeah, but I totally need that VG baseball team beanie baby what I'm to do?

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Rich Klein

How many of the readers of this thread wish they had seen this listing

I'm guessing all of us.

[ullmandds]

not me Rich...I hate making $$$$$$!!!!

[ullmandds]

but as has already been stated...the winning bidder was prepared to go a few decimal points higher...so even if many of us saw this auction...yes...we'd have had a chance to win it...but it'd have cost us much closer to it's real value?