How did this get a 7????

itjclarke · #1 05-13-2013, 01:41 AM

I am in no way a PSA basher (own cards in all majoe TPG slabs) and don't wanna beat a dead horse with yet another "TPG screwed up" thread, but I had to post this one. Near mint?!?!?!? It would've been agregious had they claimed EX, let alone NM... 4 dinged corners, a chip of paper loss on the front and no fewer than 3 legitimate creases. Wow!!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1922-E120-Am...#ht_972wt_1018

pepis · #2 05-13-2013, 02:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by itjclarke

I am in no way a PSA basher (own cards in all majoe TPG slabs) and don't wanna beat a dead horse with yet another "TPG screwed up" thread, but I had to post this one. Near mint?!?!?!? It would've been agregious had they claimed EX, let alone NM... 4 dinged corners, a chip of paper loss on the front and no fewer than 3 legitimate creases. Wow!!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1922-E120-Am...#ht_972wt_1018

You can ad slight tilt to that,
i once sent 2 Minoso rookies one got 6 and another a 3
but they inverted the holders they put the 6 in the 3 holder and the
3 in the 6 holder, so maybe something like that could it happen.

Tom S. · #3 05-13-2013, 04:50 AM

The slab looks frosted on the left side - the original card could have been cracked out and a lower-conditioned card might have been added

sycks22 · #4 05-13-2013, 05:15 AM

Rounded corners and paper loss get you a 7, not too bad.

bobbyw8469 · #5 05-13-2013, 05:29 AM

Yea..someone messed that one up.

t206blogcom · #6 05-13-2013, 06:18 AM

Let's not forget the wrinkles and creases. I'm sure that's what kept this from being a 10.

KCRfan1 · #7 05-13-2013, 07:17 AM

The cards had to have been switched at some point. Grading companies are going to make mistakes from time to time, but for someone to look at THIS card and determine a 7? I believe the grading companies are beter than that.

ullmandds · #8 05-13-2013, 07:20 AM

WOW!!!!! Windfall!!!! My whole collection is NM!!!!!

Leon · #9 05-13-2013, 07:23 AM

This one is so horrendous I find it hard to believe that PSA graded that card in that slab. Something is rotten in the state of Denmark.

bobbyw8469 · #10 05-13-2013, 07:54 AM

Maybe someone can alert Rick about the card. Maybe the case was compromised. Is he a member here?

Leon · #11 05-13-2013, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

Maybe someone can alert Rick about the card. Maybe the case was compromised. Is he a member here?

Rick has around 40 posts on this board and they are recent. I am sure he does read it sometimes.

collectbaseball · #12 05-13-2013, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leon

Rick has around 40 posts on this board, and they are recent. I am sure he does read it sometimes.

Here we go again!

Cardboard Junkie · #13 05-13-2013, 10:34 AM

This HAS to be a mistake. Probably "switched out" with another card.

dodgerfanjohn · #14 05-13-2013, 11:06 AM

Theres creases.

I'm pretty sure that case is compromised.

Iron Horse · #15 05-13-2013, 02:06 PM

the grading gods took the afternoon off

Leon · #16 05-13-2013, 08:24 PM

ended...

npa589 · #17 05-13-2013, 08:46 PM

I got a good laugh looking at that. If we had played a "Guess the grade" game, I would have been in at PSA 1.5.

itjclarke · #18 05-13-2013, 11:25 PM

Nice to see I wasn't the only one that thought 3 creases and paper loss are unacceptable on a PSA 7.

Also nice to see the seller took the listing down. That said, I'd love to have the card minus holder, or in an appropriate one.

sportscollector · #19 05-14-2013, 01:27 AM

WTF!!!!!!!!!!! that is a PSA 7 no way. then that sports kings Ty Cobb I just sold is going to come back a GEM MT 10

glynparson · #20 05-14-2013, 02:34 AM

It was either a data entry, switched grade with card before or after after it, or it was a compromised holder. Do not pretend it was anything else, no one thinks that card is honestly a 7. Granted either of the first 2 should have been caught on review with such an egregious error.

the 'stache · #21 07-07-2013, 04:53 PM

Am I crazy, or do you all see some water damage near the top right corner of the card, too? And is that a pinhole along the bottom edge of his right forearm? No way that's a 7.

As to the likelihood this has been popped, I think it's the most likely of explanations. I can't believe a PSA grader would goof by that much. Something is rotten in Denmark, indeed.

I know that frosting alone is not indicative of a cracked slab, but I remember reading that frosting along with disruption to the 4 windows along the outside of the slab make a pretty good case that it's been compromised. Well, the two windows on the left side look highly suspect to me.

ScottFandango · #22 07-09-2013, 06:19 AM

Got an ax to grind?

Nothing like rehashing an old psa bashing thread...

itjclarke · #23 07-09-2013, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScottFandango

Got an ax to grind?

Nothing like rehashing an old psa bashing thread...

Just to clarify my point of view. This was never intended as a PSA bashing thread.. I've got no real preference between PSA/SGC/BVG. It was just to point out a waaaay over the top example of an overgrazed card. A solid 2 or 3 in a 7 holder

calvindog · #24 07-09-2013, 02:07 PM

I'm just happy the seller didn't say the card was a 7++++.

KCRfan1 · #25 07-09-2013, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by itjclarke

Just to clarify my point of view. This was never intended as a PSA bashing thread.. I've got no real preference between PSA/SGC/BVG. It was just to point out a waaaay over the top example of an overgrazed card. A solid 2 or 3 in a 7 holder

Do you REALLY believe that the card actually graded a 7 ? More reasonable that someone switched the card than over grading.

itjclarke · #26 07-09-2013, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KCRfan1

Do you REALLY believe that the card actually graded a 7 ? More reasonable that someone switched the card than over grading.

I don't really KNOW enough to suggest one thing over another.. I only posted to point out a card that had no business in a 7 holder. A Black Swamp Find PSA 8.5 Wagner ended up in a PSA 10 holder by mistake, right? Strange things can happen.

nolemmings · #27 07-09-2013, 09:37 PM

Has this card been shown before?--please provide link. If not, then by all means Ian should point it out. Otherwise what is this stupid axe to grind inquiry all about? Does anyone REALLY think PSA could have missed this one as opposed to it being a card switch? Yes I do. I think it happens alot, and to give some sort of presumption that it must have been a nefarious inter-meddler or an administrative blunder is simply not supported by the track record of this grading company. Call it to our attention every time please.

itjclarke · #28 07-09-2013, 10:13 PM

There's a link to the auction on my first post, but it's probably going to expire soon.. so here are the pics.
E120 Alexander long.jpg E120 Alexander.jpg E120 Alexander back.jpg

I will add, I've been collecting since early childhood and am definitely not blind or naive in regards to scammers. My best friend's brother worked at a shop as a kid and was asked to sort through packs to pull Mattingly rookies, etc, before resealing them... but that said, I still maintain a very positive attitude toward collecting/my collection/etc and it remains fun as ever for me. I truly hope I never succumb to a doomsday mind set that everyone is out to screw everyone, and all TPG's suck, blah blah. If it gets to that point I'll probably have stopped collecting.

Some people scam, some cards are trimmed, some cards are fakes, and all TPGs make some mistakes, but if I have little/no proof that someone is scamming here, I prefer not to make accusations (even if I have strong suspicions). I also want to add, I've bought several items from Probstein and have been very happy. It should be noted that he apparently pulled this item shortly after this thread was started.

DixieBaseball · #29 07-09-2013, 10:41 PM

This card is Vg-Ex at best, but appears to be more Good to Very good to me. It smells.

shammus · #30 07-11-2013, 09:46 AM

With the 3 creases (at least...not sure if there's a 4th) and the paper scrape on the right border, that seems like a FR card to me. Seems that the 1.5 holder would be the most appropriate. I'd be mildly surprised if that card was given a "2" but not at all surprised to see it get a "1". Several smaller issues too like the stain on the top, diamond cut centering, etc...

pencil1974 · #31 07-11-2013, 10:58 AM

I'm sort of surprised it didn't get an "Spinal Tap" 11. That should be the next screw up.

UOFLfan7 · #32 07-11-2013, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by itjclarke

There's a link to the auction on my first post, but it's probably going to expire soon.. so here are the pics.
Attachment 106217 Attachment 106214 Attachment 106219

I will add, I've been collecting since early childhood and am definitely not blind or naive in regards to scammers. My best friend's brother worked at a shop as a kid and was asked to sort through packs to pull Mattingly rookies, etc, before resealing them... but that said, I still maintain a very positive attitude toward collecting/my collection/etc and it remains fun as ever for me. I truly hope I never succumb to a doomsday mind set that everyone is out to screw everyone, and all TPG's suck, blah blah. If it gets to that point I'll probably have stopped collecting.

Some people scam, some cards are trimmed, some cards are fakes, and all TPGs make some mistakes, but if I have little/no proof that someone is scamming here, I prefer not to make accusations (even if I have strong suspicions). I also want to add, I've bought several items from Probstein and have been very happy. It should be noted that he apparently pulled this item shortly after this thread was started.

I have PSA 5's that look nicer than that card. I'm sure it's not the seller trying to deceive anybody though, looks more like a grading error by PSA which is entirely possible.

Also as you said, he pulled the card. Maybe he realized that there was no way the card was a 7 and is sending it back to get regraded.

tbob · #33 07-11-2013, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UOFLfan7

I have PSA 5's that look nicer than that card. I'm sure it's not the seller trying to deceive anybody though, looks more like a grading error by PSA which is entirely possible.

Also as you said, he pulled the card. Maybe he realized that there was no way the card was a 7 and is sending it back to get regraded.

I have SGC 30s that are far better than this card. It HAS to be a compromised card not a grading mistake. PSA graders, even if they had a hangover and somewhere to go, would never graded it higher than a 2.

smtjoy · #34 07-11-2013, 02:56 PM

Looks like a 1.5 to me.

Also the slab really does not look like its been tampered with to me, most slabs have a little bit of frost and that one looks to be normal. IMO looks like a PSA mess up to me, it happens but thats one of the worst I have seen.

itjclarke · #35 07-11-2013, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smtjoy

Looks like a 1.5 to me.

Also the slab really does not look like its been tampered with to me, most slabs have a little bit of frost and that one looks to be normal. IMO looks like a PSA mess up to me, it happens but thats one of the worst I have seen.

I'm leaning more in this direction. I don't rule out tampering, but also thought the slab looked pretty clean. Again, as mentioned before, there was the case of the Black Swamp Find mix up, so that can happen.. Meaning it doesn't necessarily have to have bpeen a grader's error. However I think it seems like a long shot there would be two E120 Alexanders at PSA at the same time. Hey, maybe there is a seriously awesomely under-graded "2" out there. I want that one!!

Anyway, don't wanna speculate too much (or bash the TPG).. And still hold that no conclusion is certain based on what we can see. All that matters is the seller pulled the item. It would be interesting to know what the seller or his consigner ended up doing (maybe regrade?).

glynparson · #36 07-11-2013, 10:05 PM

Thinks that is a 7. It is silly to pretend otherwise. It is obviously a data entry mistake if the holder is legit. They may miss alterations or even occasionally grade a counterfeit card but they are not so incompetent as to think this is a 7.