The Joe Pelaez T206 Plank

[g_vezina_c55]

The Joe Pelaez 's eddie plank now in a SGC holder and for sale again.
Reslab by SGC as VG (sgc40), previously was in PSA 2 holder.


http://sports.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=7070&lotNo=80055

Last sale of this card in May 2012, price realized : 41 475

[ullmandds]

Interesting?! Was something done to this Plank to cause it to change grades so dramatically...considering it is PSA cards that are usually overgraded?!

[bn2cardz]

It is interesting that it made the jump as it did.

[drc]

Perhaps the buyer got it regraded as he thought it was undergraded.

[ullmandds]

there is a brown dot(?) to the left of eddie's collar that has disappeared from psa to sgc...but looking at the card I'd say it looks more like a vg than a good to me?!

[cubsfan-budman]

im sure its just the scans, but the staining on the front and back look much lighter in the SGC holder.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by drc

Perhaps the buyer got it regraded as he thought it was undergraded.

To me, this card is kind of an enigma. It's a good thing for either PSA or SGC, to have this card in one of their slabs, so...

• Why would PSA undergrade it in the first place? I doubt they did
• What incentive would SGC have to bump it up a notch? It certainly gives them exposure, but there's good and bad to it.
• My guess is that PSA and SGC view the characteristics of this card differently;i.e-SGC and PSA grade differently at each tier.

[g_vezina_c55]

I didn't see the card in real, but according to me it is a VG card.
So the SGC grade is OK for me ...

[ullmandds]

Maybe Dan submitted it to psa...hence the low grade?

[freakhappy]

Originally Posted by cubsfan-budman

im sure its just the scans, but the staining on the front and back look much lighter in the SGC holder.

I agree...did he dare soak it???

Peter, I was thinking the same thing...it looks more like a VG than Good...nice card.

[jhs5120]

PSA can be tough on stains. In my experience SGC is more lenient on cards FR-VG cards with decent eye appeal.

[glchen]

Also, as Kevin Mize noted in the PSA boards thread, PSA is stricter on corner wear. SGC will give a card with corner wear with higher grade if it has nice eye appeal.

[drc]

I know SGC can be lenient. I submitted an Adolph Hitler card and they returned it with a grade of "liked dogs."

[bn2cardz]

It looks to me like there is a pin hole just right of the center top right below the white border. It could be an indent or color change, but it seems that it corresponds with a color change in the staining on the top left of the center on the rear. It is a mark that shows up in both scans of the card, otherwise I would have over looked it.

[ullmandds]

I wonder if the son of sam would receive a similar grade as hitler?

[peterose4hof]

Difficult to tell from the scans of course, but it looks like it may have been soaked. Also, the corner wear is not as pronounced in the SGC holder; could it have been pressed or spooned?

It would take some serious cojones to "work" on a card of this caliber.

[Big Six]

Based purely on the scans, that card looks like it was soaked...much brighter appearance in the SGC slab. Or it's just a better scan...thank goodness I'm more of a T205 guy!

[Runscott]

Soaking does not fade the ink on cards. As Scott has mentioned many times, the 350-series Planks are notorious for looking this way - use google.

[Tcards-Please]

Originally Posted by Big Six

Based purely on the scans, that card looks like it was soaked...much brighter appearance in the SGC slab. Or it's just a better scan

I agree that it certainly looks cleaner in the SGC holder and if was soaked, then that means it was submitted as raw. If that was the case, I agree that PSA got it right before soaking and SGC got it right after soaking.

r/
Frank

[quinnsryche]

Originally Posted by drc

I know SGC can be lenient. I submitted an Adolph Hitler card and they returned it with a grade of "liked dogs."

OMG! Now THAT'S funny!!!!!!

[Fred]

I think we're all forgetting that the grade really depends on a lot of factors:

* Day of the week
* Week of the month
* Did the grader have breakfast or lunch that day
* Was the grader "shut out" by the wife the night before
* Did someone cut the grader off in traffic that day on the way to work

Bottom line - it's subjective... it's just the way the grader saw it on a particular day... PSA2, SGC40.... oh well.... I guess the main point is that it's authentic...

[Iron Horse]

It looks more like a nice 3 then a 2. SGC got it right. I think PSA does grade tougher in some cases.

[drmondobueno]

Originally Posted by cubsfan-budman

im sure its just the scans, but the staining on the front and back look much lighter in the SGC holder.

Don't have too many PSA graded cards, but is it possible the stains look lighter in the SGC scan because of the darker background of the holder? The blue sure looks richer...

[HRBAKER]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

PSA can be tough on stains. In my experience SGC is more lenient on cards FR-VG cards with decent eye appeal.

Yeah PSA will hammer a stain:

[freakhappy]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

Yeah PSA will hammer a stain:

What stain???

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

Yeah PSA will hammer a stain:

There are exceptions to everything..

[HRBAKER]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

There are exceptions to everything..

...several probably.

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

...several probably.

Lol, with 20,000,000 graded I'm sure there are!

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

Yeah PSA will hammer a stain:

How long do you think it was floating in the spittoon before the bar-back fished it out?

[atx840]

Is there a standard deduction due to a severe stain like MK?

[HRBAKER]

Scott,
It's the Bresnastain variation. I am not sure what backs it
is found with.

[T206DK]

Originally Posted by g_vezina_c55

The Joe Pelaez 's eddie plank now in a SGC holder and for sale again.
Reslab by SGC as VG (sgc40), previously was in PSA 2 holder.


http://sports.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=7070&lotNo=80055

Last sale of this card in May 2012, price realized : 41 475

If this doesn't convince some that grading cards is the biggest fraud to hit collecting....tell me what will please ??

[HRBAKER]

Originally Posted by atx840

Is there a standard deduction due to a severe stain like MK?

Chris,

Is that a stain or severe toning on the back of that T206? It almost looks like another card laid on it for an extended period of time and something caused it to tone.

[ls7plus]

Originally Posted by g_vezina_c55

I didn't see the card in real, but according to me it is a VG card.
So the SGC grade is OK for me ...

+1. It does appear in the scans as if it might have been soaked, though. Some cajones if that was the case!

Best regards,

Larry

[WillowGrove]

Originally Posted by drc

I know SGC can be lenient. I submitted an Adolph Hitler card and they returned it with a grade of "liked dogs."

that's good stuff right there.

[kcohen]

FWIW, I held that card in my hand a couple of times as Joe used to bring his treasures to the Chantilly Show to share with (OK, and show them off to) his hobby friends. The card appeared to me to be clearly within the VG range of grading, so I think SGC got it right. Had I sent it in for grading and it came back a GD, it would have been disappointing. Of course, Joe wouldn't have cared either way since, to the best of my knowledge, he never sent cards in for grading.

[cfc1909]

I think you are right on with that post Ken. I too held the card several times.

I don't think Joe ever sent a card in to be graded and Joe never sold a card. We traded but he would never consider selling.

One of the last times we spoke,maybe the last time, he mentioned that he thinks it may be getting close to the time that he may have to sell or consign his cards to an auction house.

" I am getting old Jimbo, better think about selling or consigning these cards" or something real close to that.

Man I miss him, he was definitely my highlight of the Chantilly show. We had talked about me riding down and picking him up so he could come to the National in Baltimore but time ran out.

[D. Bergin]

I don't know if it was soaked or not, but it is obviously two different scanner settings being used.

Looks like more of a Sharper setting was used on the PSA scan and a Descreen setting was used on the SGC scan to smooth everything out and avoid moire patterning when blown up.

Also, whites and off whites are notoriously all over the place depending on minor setting differences.

[chaddurbin]

i would grade the card VG, and even if you're on the fence it looks way more VG than G card. ha's price is strong(?) for a 2, but they did joe's family a disservice by not resubmitting for a 2nd opinion. we're not talking about a pedestrian every day bresnahan where the financial impact of a 2 or 3 is minimal...we're talking thousands of dollars here.

[wonkaticket]

Wouldn't be the first time a plank got a bump....some more than others.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=132902

Cheers,

John

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by ls7plus

+1. It does appear in the scans as if it might have been soaked, though. Some cajones if that was the case!

Best regards,

Larry

Please, Larry - tell us the details of what soaking does to a card.

Others who think this card was soaked - I'd love to hear your 'soaking characteristics' as well, based of course on your experiences with soaking cards yourself, as well as handling cards that you have evidence were soaked.

Thanks.

[brass_rat]

Nelson,

A little belated note on this thread, but thank you for pointing this out. I didn't notice this when the auction preview went up, and you're certainly on top of things.

I'm going to the auction preview tomorrow, so I'll report back any insights that I can. I'm not sure if Heritage allows it, but I'm bringing my camera and a macro lens to take some photos of various lots that I'm bidding on. Hopefully the lighting in the room is decent.

Thanks again,
Steve

Originally Posted by g_vezina_c55

The Joe Pelaez 's eddie plank now in a SGC holder and for sale again.
Reslab by SGC as VG (sgc40), previously was in PSA 2 holder.


http://sports.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=7070&lotNo=80055

Last sale of this card in May 2012, price realized : 41 475

[g_vezina_c55]

Cool thx steeve !!

Keep me posted. If you can do a video or pic share in this thread.

[poorlydrawncat]

Originally Posted by drc

I know SGC can be lenient. I submitted an Adolph Hitler card and they returned it with a grade of "liked dogs."

Hands down the funniest post I've ever seen on this board.

[brass_rat]

I had the opportunity to view the Plank the other day. They allowed me to take photos, but the lighting in the room wasn't great, nor was there a plug for me to use the light I had brought myself. A bummer, but I tried to take some photos anyways.

(Side notes -- I also gave a good look to the Tip Top Wags and the psa 8 Cobb, but didn't take photos. I was also disappointed that the Walter Johnson HOF plaque really isn't a plaque in the frame...it's more like a lithograph of the plaque...)

(If anybody wants the original photos, email me, and I can send them to you.)

I tried to get a close up of there the spots on the left above Plank's shoulder, as well as some corner shots.

Due to the lens I was using, only a narrow band of the picture will be in focus (I couldn't get setup like I wanted to). I used a couple different white balance settings, so please don't rely on the colors in these photos. (I was using a keychain led to provide additional light. I also took some photos under a rather strong handheld blacklight just for fun (which did not show any definitive signs of bleach).

All in, it's hard to know what to say -- it seems like Eddie bathed in water, but the more I looked at the card, I was just sad that I was an underbidder when it sold last year.

I'm going to be in attendance at the auction this evening -- we'll see if it goes for more than the current $60k!

Have a nice day,
Steve

Originally Posted by g_vezina_c55

Cool thx steeve !!

Keep me posted. If you can do a video or pic share in this thread.

[g_vezina_c55]

Thanks nice pic

[g_vezina_c55]

Nice : 65 725

24 250 more than the last May sale !