Fake Connie Mack N172

[Matthew H]

It has the Royer stamp on the back. These are fake, this one looks better than most and almost had me fooled for a second.

I've alerted the seller, we'll see if he pulls it.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/1887-Basebal...item27cf8bad18

[conor912]

Originally Posted by Matthew H

I've alerted the seller, we'll see if he pulls it

its already got good bidding action and the seller is now conveniently away until the end of the auction, so I doubt it.

[T205 GB]

Either gone or the link is broken

[Bored5000]

The link still works for me. I know eBay feedback numbers need to be taken with a grain of salt, but it is as least somewhat surprising that a seller with over 3,400 in feedback and 100 percent rating is selling such a card.

To me, this goes right back to the thread on here about the comfort level of buying a premium card off eBay vs. an auction house. Granted, the fact that this card is raw should give reason for pause. But for the most part, you don't encounter scams like this through the auction houses.

[ullmandds]

card looks rebacked...and/or shellacked too?!

[z28jd]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

card looks rebacked...and/or shellacked too?!

Can reprints be considered rebacked or does reprint just cover everything?

If you see an Old Judge with a Jos Royer Confectionery stamped back, steer clear. They all have a yellow tint to them, so they look a little off at first

[GasHouseGang]

So help me out to understand this since I'm not a collector of N172's. Is this card fake? Is it real but been rebacked? So what's the story?

[ullmandds]

I wasn't suggesting it was real...just that it appears to be rebacked...which would be another give away it may be fake/altered.

[Matthew H]

The card is 100% fake. This one almost got me for a second because the photo quality is a little bit better than usual.

[z28jd]

Originally Posted by GasHouseGang

So help me out to understand this since I'm not a collector of N172's. Is this card fake? Is it real but been rebacked? So what's the story?

You can read up on Royer OJ's here. Plenty of info from the past

http://www.net54baseball.com/search.php?searchid=442611

[Fred]

John,

The link in your last post was a "dead end". A rebacked fake would be really special - total double whammy, add the extra coating and now I'm out of the bidding....

I'd ask the seller the dimensions of the card. My guess is that it comes up short and narrow. Unfortunately this Royer crap has been around for a few years...

Hey, would you be interested in a Larry Corcoran OJ if it had a Royer Stamp?

[benderbroeth]

To me it looked to glossy, none of mine seem that glossy, that was my first clue

[z28jd]

Originally Posted by Fred

John,

The link in your last post was a "dead end". A rebacked fake would be really special - total double whammy, add the extra coating and now I'm out of the bidding....

I'd ask the seller the dimensions of the card. My guess is that it comes up short and narrow. Unfortunately this Royer crap has been around for a few years...

Hey, would you be interested in a Larry Corcoran OJ if it had a Royer Stamp?

That link is for all the threads with Royer in it. Royer Corcorans are very rare so of course I'd want one or two or all of them

[Deertick]

Originally Posted by Fred

John,

The link in your last post was a "dead end". A rebacked fake would be really special - total double whammy, add the extra coating and now I'm out of the bidding....

I'd ask the seller the dimensions of the card. My guess is that it comes up short and narrow. Unfortunately this Royer crap has been around for a few years...

Hey, would you be interested in a Larry Corcoran OJ if it had a Royer Stamp?

Hi, what are the dimensions of the card? Thanks, Matt
A: Hi, thanks for your interest and your question. The card is about 2 3/8" long by about 1 5/16" wide. I hope that this helps and good luck if you decide to bid. Best regards, RJ

[Matthew H]

Originally Posted by Deertick

Hi, what are the dimensions of the card? Thanks, Matt
A: Hi, thanks for your interest and your question. The card is about 2 3/8" long by about 1 5/16" wide. I hope that this helps and good luck if you decide to bid. Best regards, RJ

That was me asking before I noticed the stamp on the back... at least he wished me luck... nice guy.

[Fred]

That's actually pretty close to the size of a standard OJ. In any case, don't waste your time or money bidding on it. If you sent it to SGC or PSA it shouldn't receive a grade (numerical or AUTH).

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

What's a Royer?

[t206blogcom]

Perhaps I missed something, but how can you tell that this is a fake?

[z28jd]

Originally Posted by I Only Smoke 4 the Cards

What's a Royer?

It's a reference to the stamps on the back that many reprints like these can be found with. Jos. Royer Confectionery

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Bored5000

...but it is as least somewhat surprising that a seller with over 3,400 in feedback and 100 percent rating is selling such a card.

My guess is that the seller really doesn't know. If you look at their feedback, the only thing they've sold bb card related is a box of '89 Upper Deck. Their about me page says they accept consignments and I'm guessing that this is how they obtained the card.

Don’t get me wrong, that is no excuse and they should do their homework before selling something they know nothing about. However, I bet if somebody emailed them and tactfully explained to them why it's a fake and point out that it has been re-backed, they would probably pull the item.

[z28jd]

Originally Posted by t206blogcom

Perhaps I missed something, but how can you tell that this is a fake?

Well the Royer stamp is the giveaway here. They are often smaller than normal, with a yellow tint and the backing is different from a real OJ, usually darker and grainy. The picture is usually fuzzy, like a second generation photo. This one has a glossy finish too

[dog*dirt]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

My guess is that the seller really doesn't know. If you look at their feedback, the only thing they've sold bb card related is a box of '89 Upper Deck. Their about me page says they accept consignments and I'm guessing that this is how they obtained the card.

Don’t get me wrong, that is no excuse and they should do their homework before selling something they know nothing about. However, I bet if somebody emailed them and tactfully explained to them why it's a fake and point out that it has been re-backed, they would probably pull the item.

David,

I have already emailed the seller two days ago and have not received a response yet.

[Matthew H]

.

[Matthew H]

Originally Posted by t206blogcom

Perhaps I missed something, but how can you tell that this is a fake?

Look at Val's scans in this thread:

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=144552

There are no real OJs with Royer stamps. I don't know when these were created. One thing I've noticed is that they are all 1887 type B cards.

[dog*dirt]

Just an update that the seller said he will be pulling the auction due to the info he has found regarding authenticity of the card in question.

[Fred]

Nice enough seller -

HI, thanks for your comment. I will remove the listing. Regards, RJ


- casharoundthehouse

[Matthew H]

+1, nice guy.

[vintagetoppsguy]

We see situations like this all the time on the boards and you have to look at each one differently. You can't lump them all together in the "scammer" category. The first thing I noticed when I looked at the listing was that it was a consignment seller (with good feedback) and they probably didn't know much about what they were selling. Again, ignorance is no excuse, but it certainly isn't a scam. If it were a baseball card dealer, I would have thought differently.

The resolution has to do with the way you approach the seller. If you send them an email saying, "This card is a fake" and leave it at that, they're probably going to get defensive. I know I would be if I got that type of email. But if you explain it to them tactfully and point out why it's a fake and what the differences are, they're usually willing to listen to reasoning.

[Matthew H]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

We see situations like this all the time on the boards and you have to look at each one differently. You can't lump them all together in the "scammer" category. The first thing I noticed when I looked at the listing was that it was a consignment seller (with good feedback) and they probably didn't know much about what they were selling. Again, ignorance is no excuse, but it certainly isn't a scam. If it were a baseball card dealer, I would have thought differently.

The resolution has to do with the way you approach the seller. If you send them an email saying, "This card is a fake" and leave it at that, they're probably going to get defensive. I know I would be if I got that type of email. But if you explain it to them tactfully and point out why it's a fake and what the differences are, they're usually willing to listen to reasoning.

This was my message to him:


Dear casharoundthehouse,

I'm afraid the card might not be real, refer to this thread, and scroll down:

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...ighlight=royer


As you can see I treaded pretty lightly. I thought he ignored it when he went "away" until the auction was over.

He ended up responding nicely to my message. I jumped the gun a bit... Still, it's good that no one got burned, which was the goal here.

-Matt