Memory Lane Plank

[g_vezina_c55]

This card was sold for 107K in december 2011.
Impatient to see the result this time..

http://www.memorylaneinc.com/site/bi...p?itemid=26781

[bbcard1]

my guess is $125K...it's a nice one. I don't think everything will go for more these days, but this one is a good candidate.

[g_vezina_c55]

My guess is same price or a little bit less....

[bbcard1]

Economy talk could be bad for it with the closing time at 12/15. There's a lot more bickering coming down the pike....

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bbcard1

Economy talk could be bad for it with the closing time at 12/15. There's a lot more bickering coming down the pike....

I doubt that will affect anyone in the running to buy the Plank....

[sportscardpete]

Isn't the capital gains tax supposed to increase in 2013? That could mean many people are selling out of stocks now to take gains, thus having extra cash for December.

[Matthew80]

Relative ignorant newbie question: Are all interested parties for cards like this (expensive, wildly popularized cards) a known quantity? In other words, do people ever come out of the woodwork to buy cards like these, or do sellers and auction houses know when there are buyers ready to throw down $100k+ on these gems?

Related questions, do buyers of similarly priced cards exist and participate on Net54? I probably wouldn't come forward about it fearing I'd be putting a target on my back. Just curious.

I agree it's a bad time to sell (and buy, obviously) given the ominous nature of politics right now.

[bbcard1]

Matthew, just my opinion, but I imagine you could count the serious players for a card like that on both hands, probably one. They all know it is out there. Occasionally a new person will come into the game. The Plank doesn't have the sex appeal of the Wagner, but it's the next step down, for sure.

I do think that the economy doesn't really affect one's ability to buy, but can really repress their mood.

I actually think this is a decent time to buy if you are spending money that is for an indulgence. One is doing well to get 1% on money in the bank and the stock market is an absolute crap shoot. A friend of mine used to say of rare baseball cards, "It will never be cheaper unless you decide to sell it for less."

I think T206s, rare backs are pretty solid investments and unlike some of the rare 19th century cards, the market is broader. But if I knew everything I'd be rich by now.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Matthew80

Relative ignorant newbie question: Our all interested parties for cards like this (expensive, wildly popularized cards) a known quantity? In other words, do people ever come out of the woodwork to buy cards like these, or do sellers and auction houses know when there are buyers ready to throw down $100k+ on these gems?

Related questions, do buyers of similarly priced cards exist and participate on Net54? I probably wouldn't come forward about it fearing I'd be putting a target on my back. Just curious.

I agree it's a bad time to sell (and buy, obviously) given the ominous nature of politics right now.

Both, but most people able and willing to buy something at the 100K level are known to the auction house. They also typically would get a personal heads up that the item will be coming up. From what I've heard that's standard with the really big auctions - Sothebys, Christies etc.
With larger stuff and bigger prices they might even get a guided preview, or at least a video of the item sent for free.

Probably. I'm at the other end of the spectrum. The ones who can afford a card like that can have as much or as little publicity as they want. Yes, it's a security concern, but something like the Plank would most likely be in a bank vault anyway.

Oddly, some collectibles do better in a questionable economy. (gold usually, but depending on how bad it looks other stuff does well too)

Steve B

[ctownboy]

Correct me if I am wrong but don't auction houses require prior approval for people to bid on large dollar items? If that is the case then wouldn't auction houses kind of know the size of the pool of available buyers for a card like the Plank?

I mean, there would be the people already known and approved by the auction house to bid and then there would be the new prospective buyers who had inquired on the card and who had to be approved to buy it.

David

[g_vezina_c55]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I doubt that will affect anyone in the running to buy the Plank....

X 2

Anyone who might be a serious buyer for that card have enough money for buy the plank + all his christmas gift

[glchen]

Originally Posted by Matthew80

Related questions, do buyers of similarly priced cards exist and participate on Net54? I probably wouldn't come forward about it fearing I'd be putting a target on my back. Just curious.
...

There are a few people on the board who own Baltimore News Ruth (and I don't know who), and if you look at the total value of some people's collections on the board, you can easily say that they are in excess of 100K by a good deal. Therefore, if they wanted to "trade," they could easily do it. However, I would probably say that very few of those people have a 100K just lying around burning a hole in their pocket.

[Leon]

There are quite a few people who read this board that have the means to buy that card, and buy other cards of equal or more value regularly. At least 2 of our members have (2) Baltimore Ruths each, one of each color. I know both very, very well but would never out them. A few lurkers who have come up to me at the National and introduced themselves to me, have multi-million dollar collections...and they aren't registered members. I would venture to guess there are a minimum of 50 people who read this board who have card collections valued in excess of a million dollars.

[Matthew80]

Originally Posted by g_vezina_c55

X 2

Anyone who might be a serious buyer for that card have enough money for buy the plank + all his christmas gift

Yeah, good call...

Thanks for the insight, all. It's great to hear there are big fish here. Congrats to them, and here's to hoping we can all match their collections in some form or another in due time!

[g_vezina_c55]

67 500 and a couple days before the end...

[margoaepi]

Don't worry, the $67,500 is just my placeholder bid.

[grundle20]

No wonder what the final price is, remember what type of guy that card commission is going to...

[g_vezina_c55]

Bidding end tonight !

[egbeachley]

Originally Posted by sportscardpete

Isn't the capital gains tax supposed to increase in 2013? That could mean many people are selling out of stocks now to take gains, thus having extra cash for December.

If that's what they are doing in this case, they failed miserably. It was purchased less than a year ago so it doesn't qualify for capital gains tax. It's taxed as regular income.

[sb1]

Actually no, it's a flat 28% collectible tax, irregardless of when it was purchased.

And the OP was referring to people selling appreciated assets(i.e. stocks and mutual funds) at the current years rate on capital gains and using those funds to acquire cards such as the Plank.

[calvindog]

Yes, it was a painful lesson to learn that gains on sales of collectibles are not taxed as capital gains.

[egbeachley]

Originally Posted by sb1

Actually no, it's a flat 28% collectible tax, irregardless of when it was purchased.

And the OP was referring to people selling appreciated assets(i.e. stocks and mutual funds) at the current years rate on capital gains and using those funds to acquire cards such as the Plank.

Missed that. Thanks.

[g_vezina_c55]

72 500$ wow a big lost for the last year buyer and price drop !!!!!!

[sb1]

It was a weak 5 and the typical washed out 350 series. A nice 150 would have brought double this price.

[e107collector]

Originally Posted by sb1

It was a weak 5 and the typical washed out 350 series. A nice 150 would have brought double this price.

I agree with Scott, the 150 series look so much nicer compared to a 350 series.

Tony

[sb1]

Big difference in the presentation of the 150 series vs. 350 series. This is true of all T206's not just the Plank, the 150's have much bolder color and better registration. I would image the plates/stones being new and fresh contributed to this as well as this being a new issue, more attention to detail was paid. By the 350 series, T206 printing volume was probably up, inking was stretched further and the result was an inferior product.

[atx840]

Nice twins sir...

[g_vezina_c55]

Another plank for sale... psa 5 SC350.

http://www.lelands.com/Auction/Aucti...lank-(PSA-5-EX)

bidding end on 21 dec...

[E93]

Originally Posted by g_vezina_c55

Another plank for sale... psa 5 SC350.

http://www.lelands.com/Auction/Aucti...lank-(PSA-5-EX)

bidding end on 21 dec...

I agree with Scott. The other thing is that with this second (and IMHO nicer) example coming up, it may have effected how aggressive bidders would be.
JimB

[g_vezina_c55]

yep i just see the lelands's example....

[iwantitiwinit]

That is a weak 5 at best. I send a card in with 3 of 4 soft corners best I ever get back is a 4.0

[Guttapercha]

Plank psa 5 at memory lane sold for $86000. The Leland's psa 5 is at $102,000 ( including fees) already. What's with that? In my opinion the memory lane looks better. That person appears to have gotten the deal? Anyone's thought?

[hammer]

Dont believe every price for cards that you see.

[Guttapercha]

Hammer, what's that mean? You have a conspiracy theory?

[danmckee]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Yes, it was a painful lesson to learn that gains on sales of collectibles are not taxed as capital gains.

Yu did something by the book?? Christ I am losing respect for you Jeff!

[baseballart]

Quote:
Originally Posted by calvindog View Post
Yes, it was a painful lesson to learn that gains on sales of collectibles are not taxed as capital gains.

Originally Posted by danmckee

Yu did something by the book?? Christ I am losing respect for you Jeff!

Canada is a good taxing jurisdiction for sales of collectibles. Unless you are a dealer, any gain on cards or memorabilia is taxed at the capital gains rate, which in my home province is 21.85% (i.e. only 1/2 of the gain is taxable, highest marginal rate of 43.7). As well, there is a $1,000 floor on the cost, which means that you only pay tax on gains where the proceeds exceed actual cost or a deemed minimum cost of $1,000. Losses on cards are not deductible against gains, however.

Max

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by sb1

Big difference in the presentation of the 150 series vs. 350 series. This is true of all T206's not just the Plank, the 150's have much bolder color and better registration. I would image the plates/stones being new and fresh contributed to this as well as this being a new issue, more attention to detail was paid. By the 350 series, T206 printing volume was probably up, inking was stretched further and the result was an inferior product.

Can you show us some examples? I know it's true for Plank, but for others I have seen plenty of 350's that look just as clean as the 150's - meaning the plates weren't suffering much, or had been re-created. Also, weren't the same plates used for Coupons? If that's true, they should have all looked like hell.

[sb1]

Scott,

Kind of hard to show without comparisons of each card, but in the old days when dealers had multiple cards of each player in an album, you could pick the 150's out very easily, always deeper color and a sharper look. I once won a bet with a dealer that I could differentiate the two series from the front only and after only 2 pages in the binder he conceded. And, it's a abit hard to do on the internet unless the cards all in one scan, where each one is displayed next to one another and not random scans from multiple sources.

As to the Coupon cards, I would say most of those do not have the sharpness of the 150 series T206's and we do see that by 1919 type 3 Coupon they were very washed out looking.

[bbcard1]

I have to admit a bit of shock at the ML plank price. My pockets are not deep enough to make a play for that kind of whale, but that one seems like a real buy.

[jhs5120]

I think it had a lot to do with when the auction ended. I've never seen an auction with an initial bidding deadline of Saturday at 7:00 PM. A Saturday right before Christmas none-the-less. I picked up a couple nice cards that auction for prices 20-30% what they have sold for previously. If I were the consigner, I'd be pissed.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Can you show us some examples? I know it's true for Plank, but for others I have seen plenty of 350's that look just as clean as the 150's - meaning the plates weren't suffering much, or had been re-created. Also, weren't the same plates used for Coupons? If that's true, they should have all looked like hell.

I'm almost certain the plates were redone between the 150 and 350 runs. There are likely some holdovers where already printed 150's were run with 350 backs but only a few. The same probably happened between 350 and 460 runs too.

They really would have been redone for the coupons and other related sets, since the stones were expensive and the plates don't store well. Stones were typically resurfaced and reused for other jobs. The masters that were used to make the layout transfers would have been retained for some time.

Steve B

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by sb1

Scott,

Kind of hard to show without comparisons of each card, but in the old days when dealers had multiple cards of each player in an album, you could pick the 150's out very easily, always deeper color and a sharper look. I once won a bet with a dealer that I could differentiate the two series from the front only and after only 2 pages in the binder he conceded. And, it's a abit hard to do on the internet unless the cards all in one scan, where each one is displayed next to one another and not random scans from multiple sources.

As to the Coupon cards, I would say most of those do not have the sharpness of the 150 series T206's and we do see that by 1919 type 3 Coupon they were very washed out looking.

I'm thinking you have a really good eye , but you must be correct about this.

I also get what you're saying about showing 2 cards from the same source.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by steve B

I'm almost certain the plates were redone between the 150 and 350 runs. There are likely some holdovers where already printed 150's were run with 350 backs but only a few. The same probably happened between 350 and 460 runs too.

They really would have been redone for the coupons and other related sets, since the stones were expensive and the plates don't store well. Stones were typically resurfaced and reused for other jobs. The masters that were used to make the layout transfers would have been retained for some time.

Steve B

Thanks, Steve. I'm curious to see more detail about how the layout transfers were made, and how those were used to surface the stones. For cards like the Wagner and Donlin/seated, they are practically colorized photos with very little artistic license involved, but the Matty White Cap was obviously 'freehanded' quite a bit.

[Jlighter]

I was looking at some of my cards, you maybe right with this 350 vs. 150 thing.

[sb1]

Originally Posted by Jlighter

I was looking at some of my cards, you maybe right with this 350 vs. 150 thing.

It's possible, while I am no T206 guru, I have handled a few.

[RCMcKenzie]

t206sov350doolan.jpgt213-3doolan.jpg

Here is a t206 sov 350 and a t213-3 cropped from the same scan. Both cards were scanned through a penny sleeve and top loader.

[wonkaticket]

Regarding Plank agree with Scott 100% that 150 series cards will always look better than the 350’s although there are a handful of nice looking 350’s that have been offered.

In terms of any 150 vs. 350 I’m 95% in agreement with Scott here too. Although I will say that it isn’t always the case many times 350’s will look better than 150’s. Heck even 150's can be off compared to other 150's. I really think it’s a bit of the old luck of the draw. But for the most part if you toss a pile of T206’s on the table there will be more sharp 150’s compared to 350’s. However with anything there exceptions that can be shown.

I tried to dig thru my limited stock to post some you can judge for yourself. Tried to keep apples to apples as much as I could…sorry for the bad scans my scanner is on the fritz...using cheap one.






Cheers,

John