Ruth rookie cards, the new wagner?

[Delray Vintage]

The price of ruth m-101-4 and 5 rookies are exploding. Just saw the psa 7 from tonytrade at 350k on ebay. Is this the new wagner in that prices seem to be increasing so fast? Can anyone explain the rise? is it supply and demand at work or has it become a rarity that has been underpriced and now only getting its due? I do not have one nor am I bidding. Just curious.

[glchen]

Personally, I think the new Wagner is the Baltimore News Ruth, which was just sold via private listing by REA in PSA 2 for 575K. Of course, there are only around 10 copies known, so it is much rarer than the Wagner.

[yanks12025]

Originally Posted by Delray Vintage

The price of ruth m-101-4 and 5 rookies are exploding. Just saw the psa 7 from tonytrade at 350k on ebay. Is this the new wagner in that prices seem to be increasing so fast? Can anyone explain the rise? is it supply and demand at work or has it become a rarity that has been underpriced and now only getting its due? I do not have one nor am I bidding. Just curious.

Just cause it's listed at 350K doesn't mean it's worth 350k.

[Delray Vintage]

Gary the 1914 is so rare that its price will be beyond the escalation of the wagner.

[Gary Dunaier]

Originally Posted by yanks12025

Just cause it's listed at 350K doesn't mean it's worth 350k.

I'll give you $10K. I've got to make a profit, too.

[E93]

I think the new Wagner is still the old Wagner and probably always will be for a lot of reasons, but the BN Ruth is probably #2 right now.
JimB

[travrosty]

Even though it sounds a little weird, there is such a thing as being too rare working against something if not enough of them get sold and offered up at auction every so many years. wagners come about a couple/few every year it seems and each one is expected to sell for more than the last, and i think the fact there is about 75 examples actually helps it rather than there being less than ten examples. If there were just one and say it was a 4, would it be a 5 million dollar card. I don't know but the guys that have 200 or 300 grand but not a million to sapre can get a wagner and i think it helps boost the exposure and the price for the few top grade ones that do go for close to a million or over.

[Matthew H]

It's also the fact that out probably close to a million t206 out there only 75 people can finish. If there were only 10 Wagners I think it'd sell for even more.

Also, if BN was a generally a more common set, with only 10 Ruths, the Ruth card would IMO be more valueable.

[glynparson]

is was and will probably always be #1.

[markf31]

In my opinion I find it hard to believe a card will ever reach the level of increasing value as consistently as the Wagner has. There is so much history, nostalgia, myth and rumor about the Wagner that those qualities and the stories themselves have just about become bigger than the card itself. I see buyers who are not collectors consistently trying to obtain a Wagner simply because…it’s a T206 Wagner, but I can’t generally see that about any of the Ruth’s despite the fact that it is still Babe Ruth.

[Leon]

The Sporting News Ruth is a relatively common card. I expect it to go down from it's current levels in the future. It's a great card but is actually fairly common. I think a few people with them might be "protecting" their investment in their own cards by driving others up in price. I am not saying anything illegal is going on, or shill bidding.....but people with them might be keeping the other ones prices "artificially" high. The supply of them is more than the demand for collectors rather than investors . The T206 Wags will always be the Wags (#1)......the BN Ruth is #2 imo.

[rman444]

The T206 Wagner is a relatively common card as well.

If you were to add up all of the M101 Ruth rookies with all backs combined, there are probably a few more Ruths than Wagners, but I would say that it is in the same ballpark. My guess would be somewhere in the 75-125 range. For some M101 backs, there is probably only a single example known or no known examples.

I believe that the BN Ruth will eventually surpass the T206 Wagner (as it should) and the M101 Ruth will continue to increase in value with mainstream collectors looking for "Babe Ruth's rookie card." Similar to the T206, there are enough M101 Ruths around to keep the buzz going.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by rman444

The T206 Wagner is a relatively common card as well.

If you were to add up all of the M101 Ruth rookies with all backs combined, there are probably a few more Ruths than Wagners, but I would say that it is in the same ballpark. My guess would be somewhere in the 75-125 range. For some M101 backs, there is probably only a single example known or no known examples.

I believe that the BN Ruth will eventually surpass the T206 Wagner (as it should) and the M101 Ruth will continue to increase in value with mainstream collectors looking for "Babe Ruth's rookie card." Similar to the T206, there are enough M101 Ruths around to keep the buzz going.

My thoughts from watching the hobby as closely as almost anyone, for the last 15 yrs, is that there are at least 5x more M101-5/4 Ruths as there are T206 Wagners.

[rman444]

Leon - you have a few years on me in the hobby, but not many. 500 M101 Ruth rookies? I don't think so.

Just because there aren't only 1 or 2 know examples doesn't make everything 500

[Leon]

Originally Posted by rman444

Leon - you have a few years on me in the hobby, but not many. 500 M101 Ruth rookies? I don't think so.

Just because there aren't only 1 or 2 know examples doesn't make everything 500

I think there are close to 75 Wags....and maybe 350'ish Ruth Sporting News. These are just guesses from watching a lot. You might be right and I might be wrong...

[rman444]

I think that you and I can agree that both are quite common compared to what we typically collect.

[ullmandds]

Not to get involved in this scuffle...and without checking pop reports...I'd have to guess there are way less than 100 Ruth Rookies(m101-5/4) graded by anyone...so I'm w/Dan...no way there are even 2-300 ruth rookies...imo.

[Vintageclout]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

Not to get involved in this scuffle...and without checking pop reports...I'd have to guess there are way less than 100 Ruth Rookies(m101-5/4) graded by anyone...so I'm w/Dan...no way there are even 2-300 ruth rookies...imo.

Right now there are approximately 80 Ruth rookie's including all of the various ad backs on the combined PSA and SGC population reports. Assuming roughly 25% are crossovers, you can immediately subtract 20 of those from the total (with that crossover estimate very conservative). I would find it hard to believe that a raw number of some 200+ exist in private collections...seems a bit high. Therefore, one might guess some 100 to 125 raw copies are available with a grand total of approx. 150 to 175. Unfortunately, the actual raw count will never reach full resolution.

Joe T.

[Gary Dunaier]

Originally Posted by rman444

I believe that the BN Ruth will eventually surpass the T206 Wagner

One thing I like about the Baltimore News Ruth card is that, unlike the Sporting News Ruth (or the T206 Wagner, for that matter), it actually bears the date of issue on the back.

[drc]

A key is the wagner is a rare care in a plentiful and popularly collected issue. The card is rare but the issue is not. A card can be too rare and obscure for its own good (high value)-- thus there are rarer cards that are not as valuable.

It's not a coincidence that the most expensive rare cards often to usually come from plentiful and popular sets-- wagner, plank, goudy lajoie.