Do you guys consider this a shill?

[Bilko G]

I was reading on another site about an on-line consignment seller that will actually let the person who consigned the item put one large "hidden reserve" bid on their own items from their Ebay account.

Do you guys consider this a form of shill bidding???

[D. Bergin]

Yes.

[rainier2004]

definitely...

[Bilko G]

Yeah i thought it was for sure as well.

[Bridwell]

Yes.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I don't have a real issue with it. Starting an auction at 9.99 with a hidden reserve of $500 seems indistinguishable from starting the auction at $500. Either way, you can't win the card unless you bid $500; does it matter if you know it or not? I would be more concerned about not knowing who the consignor is, because many of the items in major auctions come (in my opinion, of course) from card doctors.

[steve B]

Bidding on your own items isn't allowed in most places.

It's clearly shilling, and really shouldn't be allowed. Ebay has a way of adding a reserve and for an expensive item it really doesn't cost much.

Steve B

[betafolio2]

Originally Posted by Bilko G

Do you guys consider this a form of shill bidding???

Yes, it's not only shill bidding (because the consignment seller would have to have a fake eBay account to place the other bid), but I would think it's also against eBay policy.

[Bilko G]

Originally Posted by betafolio2

Yes, it's not only shill bidding (because the consignment seller would have to have a fake eBay account to place the other bid), but I would think it's also against eBay policy.

No the consignment seller isn't faking an ebay account. Hes just allowing whoever consigned the item to use their OWN ebay account to put in a bid.

Example- I consign a card to this guy. I want at least $500 for the card so the guy who is selling for me allows me to put in one bid, with my own ebay account, while the auction is running to "protect my investment". If i happen to be the winning bidder he charges me 4% and gives me my card back. If someone else wins i just pay his normal consignment fees.

[rainier2004]

Originally Posted by Bilko G

No the consignment seller isn't faking an ebay account. Hes just allowing whoever consigned the item to use their OWN ebay account to put in a bid.

Example- I consign a card to this guy. I want at least $500 for the card so the guy who is selling for me allows me to put in one bid, with my own ebay account, while the auction is running to "protect my investment". If i happen to be the winning bidder he charges me 4% and gives me my card back. If someone else wins i just pay his normal consignment fees.

If your point is that its within ebays rules, then yes you are correct. This is still shilling, dishonest, BS or whatever bow you want to put on it...protect your investment with a BIN, high opening bid or a reserve...use the tools that were established within the rules to accomplish the same goals in an honest fashion. The definition of "dishonest" covers an awful lot of territory...

[HRBAKER]

It is serving a dual purpose, a consignor is "protecting" his investment and the "bid" from another account creates the illusion to the non-informed other bidder that he is engaging in a legitimate auction with at least one other interested party in an arms-length transaction (which it is not). Clearly shilling.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by rainier2004

If your point is that its within ebays rules, then yes you are correct. This is still shilling, dishonest, BS or whatever bow you want to put on it...protect your investment with a BIN, high opening bid or a reserve...use the tools that were established within the rules to accomplish the same goals in an honest fashion. The definition of "dishonest" covers an awful lot of territory...

I think he's just mapping out the scenario, in asking whether it's shilling or not.

I agree with you though. Whether Ebay says it's shilling (and unfortunately it's a loophole Ebay would have a tough time doing anything about) or not is besides the point.

It's a shill bid, and it's too bad some sellers have to resort to this.

As somebody who often handles Ebay consignments (mostly lower end stuff), I can assure you I would be handling many more consignments if I agreed to let the consignor bid on their own stuff to set a secret Reserve, while still keeping the illusion of a straight auction.

I do think one of the biggest problems in the auction game is auction sellers caving into consignors expectations of what they expect to receive in return for their items, and then doing what they have to, to try and meet those expectations, instead of letting the actual market determine what their items are worth.

[Bilko G]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

I think he's just mapping out the scenario, in asking whether it's shilling or not.

Oh yes, i was just mapping out the scenario that i heard, i have NEVER participated in anything like this. I have never consigned cards before and i have never sold cards on ebay for anyone before, that was just purely a fictional example to better explain what i heard.

Thanks for all the reply guys, i thought this was very shady when i heard it and just wanted to know if everyone else thought it was too.

[Clutch-Hitter]

Yes, it isn't right. There's an overt way to put a reserve on an auction; To do otherwise is deceptive.

[Exhibitman]

It is against Ebay rules, which states in its User Agreement that you are not to "manipulate the price of any item..." Unfortunately, it is an example of a small injury done to a lot of people that no single person would be willing to spend the $$ to take to court.


It is not considered illegal shilling in CA if the auctioneer discloses in advance that the consignor may bid on his or her items [Civil Code 1812.608(h)]. If the listing doesn't do that, the seller is breaking the auction laws in CA, which is where Ebay hosts and where the User Agreement provides for contractual jurisdiction.


The User Agreement on Ebay also states: "In accordance with Cal. Civ. Code §1789.3, you may report complaints to the Complaint Assistance Unit of the Division of Consumer Services of the California Department of Consumer Affairs by contacting them in writing at 400 R Street, Sacramento, CA 95814, or by telephone at (800) 952-5210."

So, who's gonna drop a dime on the seller?