HELMAR: Why would you make such a card?

[Sterling Sports Auctions]

I came across this card and found it quite distasteful. I would love to here the logic for making the card and eve the title "Carl Mays Lets one Loose". I know the person behind the cards reads the board. Will we be seeing a Marichal/Rosboro card soon or other cards depicting tragedy in baseball?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/T202-Helmar-...item1c25d3a19a

Truly Tasteless,

Lee Behrens

[camlov2]

Have to agree with the OP, also on the back of the card where it talks of Chapman and says "Cleveland's second place finish in 1919 maybe foreshadowing of a great year to come for Chapman."

A for artwork, F for topic selection.

[Ladder7]

A rehash of the beaning is tragedy that strangely sells.

Player cards pulling big $, long after they've passed is just plain whacky noo noo. But, I've been wrong before.

[yanksfan09]

I saw this too and was thinking the same thing. Probably should have just left it alone.

[Orioles1954]

I honestly don't see the issue.

[bbcard1]

I don't see the value of Helmar in general.

Lee are you sure your not upset at the comment made about his pitch being similar bowling in Mays bio

I like some of the cards designs but would not buy any FWIW

[slidekellyslide]

Maybe Helmar can buy up some of the Clemente wreckage and insert tiny pieces into cards.

[D. Bergin]

Probably could have used another headline but otherwise I don't have a problem with the card.

The two players are intertwined in baseball history, morbid as it may be.

It's silly to ignore the connection like it never happened.

Maybe it's because I come from the boxing world, where events like this become part of the general discussion of the history of the sport.

Griffith/Paret, Davey Moore/Sugar Ramos, Mancini/Kim, etc..

You just can't separate the men or the events that transpired, regardless of what the rest of their careers entailed.

BTW, I don't own any of the Helmar cards, but I sure do like them. I find it a bit odd that the same people who complain that "they don't make cards like they used to", also complain about these cards.

I'd most likely pay a premium for one of these, then I ever would for a Strasburg Silver Chrome Diamond Cut Space Patch card.

[milkit1]

yeah I dont understand the problem either? the "carl mays lets one loose" title has nothing to do with the beaning. it s the title for the middle picture just like the original t202s were. regarding putting the two players together being tasteless, how so? it happened. just like the black sox our the nolan ryan/robin ventura fight its a part of baseball history. pig headedly ignoring these things seems silly. comparing the card to the clemente crash is also rediculous as the crash itself had nothing to do with baseball. the beaning happened DURING a game and is every bit a part of the games history as any other famous play and I see no difference between doing a t202 style chapman/mays card and doing a merkle/evers card.
regarding the "great year to come line", chapman had a good year in 1919 so why not speculate that 1920 would have been even better?


oh and I am the one that wrote that card, other then the title itself which wasn't mine. I am also proud to say I wrote the other hassans. rest assured there wont be any clemente/fateful landing/airplane cards in the future but if I get to write a merkle/not touching second/ evers card ill be very happy to do so. I might even mention bonehead once or twice, space permitting.

[carrigansghost]

I have a couple and really like the cards. Keep up the good work. History is history, we should not pretend it didn't happen.

Rawn

[Jay Wolt]

Originally Posted by carrigansghost

I have a couple and really like the cards. Keep up the good work. History is history, we should not pretend it didn't happen.

Rawn

I agree there are countless non sports sets dealing w/ the tragedy of war
from the Civil War sets in the 1880's to the WWI & II & Vietnam sets of modern times
and many sets dealing w/ tyrants & murderers.
Don't think Helmar was glorifying the situation, just reporting it.
I'm sure there are some collectors who aren't even that familiar w/ the Mays/Chapman beaning death.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by Jay Wolt

I'm sure there are some collectors who aren't even that familiar w/ the Mays/Chapman beaning death.

Odd thing is, if they picked up this card and read the back, they still wouldn't know.

The center panel doesn't show Mays "beaning" anyone.

[D. Bergin]

Hmmm! Glancing at Carl Mays record.

I wonder how many other 20th Century pitchers with (5) 20 Win Seasons, a career ERA under 3.00 and a winning % over .620, have not even come close to getting in the HOF.

[nolemmings]

I don't care for the title at all, and think the whole concept could have been handled better. For one thing, the card is at least awkward in its juxtatposed biographies. It wants the reader to believe that Chapman has not been beaned yet, by foreshadowing a potential great year on the heels of his 1919 season. Yet the same card mentions Mays' having completed his first full season as a Yankee with a 26-11 record, which would have occurred AFTER the 1920 season and after Chapman was dead. IOW the "card" would have been printed after the beaning and there would be no reason to not mention its fateful outcome.

To me a memorial T202 that spoke of the event would have been more appropriate, and a different title more tasteful.

[TexasLeaguer]

These cards are modern creations, and should not be listed in the pre-WWII card section of Ebay. This is against Ebay policy and should be flagged/reported as "search and browse manipulation," and "listing in an incorrect category." Hopefully if more people will do the same, they will not show up when we search for items that are actually pre-war.

[HOF Auto Rookies]

Originally Posted by TexasLeaguer

These cards are modern creations, and should not be listed in the pre-WWII card section of Ebay. This is against Ebay policy and should be flagged/reported as "search and browse manipulation," and "listing in an incorrect category." Hopefully if more people will do the same, they will not show up when we search for items that are actually pre-war.

And since that is true, this a a pre-war forum, and therefore should not be discussed here, and should be discussed in the "water-cooler" section.

[D. Bergin]

Lot of hard-liners here. LOL!

[novakjr]

I don't mind the title of the card or the pairing. However, it could've done without the line "a pitch that leaves the opposition speechless at the plate."

[Matthew H]

Originally Posted by TexasLeaguer

These cards are modern creations, and should not be listed in the pre-WWII card section of Ebay. This is against Ebay policy and should be flagged/reported as "search and browse manipulation," and "listing in an incorrect category." Hopefully if more people will do the same, they will not show up when we search for items that are actually pre-war.

Maybe we can all do this with the thousands of reprints first, then worry about the Helmars?

[danmckee]

Originally Posted by bbcard1

I don't see the value of Helmar in general.

WELL STATED!!!

Some of them look neat but none would ever bring hundreds of dollars without SirShill at the helm.