Babe Ruth Fro Joy...is it real..scans added at #7 post!..BGS 5.0 just popped!!

[1966CUDA]

Got a couple pics. with my cell phone at a local flea market so the pics aren't the greatest. I know there are a lot of fakes of this card so I wondered if you folks had an opinion on this one....if one can be made with the not-so-good pics?! I know there is some kind of issue where the corners meeting for the lines around the text on the reverse have a gap on the fakes...there isn't a gap that I could see on this one.

Thanks-
Claude

[1966CUDA]

Anyone have an idea? ......vendor said they would hold card for me til this afternoon while I researched it online. Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks-
Claude

[aelefson]

I would doubt it, but am not an expert. However, I frequent antique shops and flea markets often, and Fro Joy Ruths are the most common "vintage" baseball item folks have for sale. Unless you know that it was found buried in a pile of 1920s and 1930s paper items, assume reprint when it comes to these.
Alan

[Leon]

These and the Babe Ruth Candy cards are, to me, the most difficult to tell if they are real of any card in the pre-war space. There is absolutely no way for me to have a good guess without holding it. The TPG's look at the paper type (and other characteristics) when determining authenticity. It is not a real bad fake if it is one...but just too hard to tell from a scan. regards

[docpatlv]

Claude,

The best way to determine authenticity might be with a blacklight. In the avatar thread, a poster demonstrated what it should and shouldn't look like under a black light. I posted the one I have for you to compare to....



Mike

[Zach Wheat]

I have a Ruth Fro Joy and stopped collecting the set for this very reason. From my experience, this is probably the most difficult set/cards for me to determine whether they are authenticate or reprints.

Good luck.

M Wheat

[1966CUDA]

Got some better scans....what are opinions now?

Thanks-
Claude

[Clutch-Hitter]

I've been heavily researching these for several months now.......

Like you said, the text box on the reverse is one indicator, but there is another much less obvious characteristic that should be present on the reverse.....

If you'll post a better picture or scan, we'll have a better guess....Can't tell much at all from the posted image.

A lot of people got ripped off in the 70s and 80s with singles cut from counterfeit sheets, so some ideas are likely conspiracy theories. The fact that PSA holdered blue ones from the 70s and fake black and white sheet singles from the 70s didn't help the theories. They were only produced for a week, but we are talking about Babe Ruth in 1928, a year after his awesome '27 season. He was huge! It's reasonable to assume this made their survival rate more likely.

The factory singles could be returned for a premium and an uncut sheet. There are not many of either. It's not likely someone sent their set of singles in for a sheet and subsequently cut the sheet into singles, so any single with uncut sheet characteristics is fake.

These are authentic:




The two lying horizontal are c.1970s fakes:




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Repli-cards fluoresce purple with a black light.

Ice cream is a dull color under a black light. I have a '28 Fro Joy Tunney with very similar stains, last image. Imagine having a cone with dripping ice cream and scraping the side of the cone with the card that came in the pack.

A repli-card with manufactured aging sold for more than 100.00 recently, and the seller stated it was a reprint in the listing! The buyer could have bought a full set of repli-cards for less than ten dollars!

[Clutch-Hitter]

Didn't see the new images until after I submitted my post. It was a little over-exposed, so I tried to fix it, pictured below.

Nice card Mike! That stain is very cool.

Claude, IMO the card looks good, but like Leon said, it's very tough unless in person. I can't see the characteristic on the reverse, maybe a little, and granted it shouldn't be quite as obvious on that card as it is on the portrait and look out mr pitcher cards, for example.

I do not like how well it is centered.

Get a black light, probably around 10.00, and look at it. If you can, post a picture with it under the light.

[1966CUDA]

I will try and get a black light this week and then post updated pics. Thanks for all the help.

-claude

[Clutch-Hitter]

Here's some of those 70's counterfeit. I tried to inform the seller but he or she has blocked incoming messages due to high volume. Based on his or her other items, there is little volume.

http://cgi.ebay.com/1928-BABE-RUTH-B...item588d765f41

[deadballpaul]

Black lights are helpful, but the best way is to inspect the printing. Get a microscope, learn about photoengraving during that time period, & then you can be sure. Also, when possible compare it to a Tunney Fro Joy under a scope. Sure, cards were photoengraved after the 20's, but they still have to duplicate the ink & paper. Look at a card from the 60's that's photoengraved under a scope. The ink is usually much neater than cards from the 20's since they are not using the same ink & certainly not the same paper. Yes I've heard talk of the original printing plates being used to reprint these, but I doubt it. Even if that was true, you could still authenticate them using a scope, & comparing to a Tunney, or a known original ruth.

[Clutch-Hitter]

Paul, thanks for the information. My Crack Fielder Ruth was once inside a Beckett holder.

This is My 1927 Fro Joy Tunney, 1928 Fro Joy Crack Fielder, along with Look Out Mr Pitcher, lying corner to corner:

[danmckee]

I was set up at the Oaks booth 227 and you could have brought it over, I would have told you in 2 seconds if it were real or not. Based on your scan, it looks good to me. Dan Mckee.

[1966CUDA]

Finally got around to sending it in!!! I am happy!

6885477 1928 Ruth Fro Joy Babe Ruth-Bang The Babe Lines one out 5.0