Question about buying graded

[mjmj1966]

Since I'm new to the vintage world I buy all graded. This is basicly a question to see how others who buy graded go about it. I'm on a moderate budget every month. If I'm looking at a 1965 Steve Carlton RC for example, would you buy the best grade with the money you have or maybe drop a grade and get another card you're looking at? Also, considering the year of the card do you have a minimum grade you look for? Just looking for ideas.

Mike

[rdixon1208]

That's all up to you man. For the most part I buy low grade cards that I could never afford in high grade. Assuming all $$$ is the same, I'd rather have an SGC 20 Ruth than a PSA 8 Mantle. If I could afford a '33 Goudey Ruth in a 5, I'd probably use the money for some kind of rare Wagner or Young cabinet card instead.

[Jaybird]

I'll chime in a common phrase around here, buy the card and not the holder. There are some extremely nice cards in lower grade holders and some not as nice cards in higher graded holders.

Typically you will pay more for a really nicely centered, nicely registered, nice color, nice corner card, regardless of the number on the flip.

In my opinion, I'll buy a 2 if the card is nice. But, I don't compete in the registry game so if that's your thing than the holder and grade will matter more.

[bozzio37]

I'll second that "buy the card, not the holder" mantra. Looks like I have a companion to the Wheat - same date, same stamp, likely same collection once upon a time! Without the stamp, this Bad Bill would likely cost about the same as a respectable t206 Cobby. Sorry about the crappy scan - I'm new at this. Loooooooooong time lurker, rare poster.

[mjmj1966]

Great advice. I never realized until it was said that I've been looking at the card anyway. The card is what only matters to me not the grade. I've seen some nice 2's. I want to add some T cards to my collection thats why I was asking. Thanks Jaybird.

Originally Posted by Jaybird

I'll chime in a common phrase around here, buy the card and not the holder. There are some extremely nice cards in lower grade holders and some not as nice cards in higher graded holders.

Typically you will pay more for a really nicely centered, nicely registered, nice color, nice corner card, regardless of the number on the flip.

In my opinion, I'll buy a 2 if the card is nice. But, I don't compete in the registry game so if that's your thing than the holder and grade will matter more.

[smtjoy]

Another collecter who likes a nice looking SGC 40 over most higher grades (I try and sell off my higher grades to allow me to purchase other cards I want). Always buy the card not the holder and you can get some great deals! Here is one of my favorites-

[Bambino]

I've read this "buy the card not the holder" mantra several times on this board, and it makes complete sense. I'm wondering though, do you guys end up buying nice-looking non-graded cards and then have them graded yourselves or will you mostly buy graded cards to lessen the chances of getting something that isn't authentic?

I just recently got back into collecting (focusing on HOF RC's) and I'm almost ashamed to admit that none of the purchases I've made (besides a Steve Carlton PSA 4) have been graded. I keep them all in 4-screw holders though

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by Bambino

...I'm almost ashamed to admit that none of the purchases I've made (besides a Steve Carlton PSA 4) have been graded...

Don't ever be ashamed of how you choose to collect. It's your money, your time, and your passion. I collect PSA cards, even though the majority of this board collects SGC. Then there are some on this board who believe that TPGs are the ruination of the hobby. Collect however you like and you'll be happy.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Here is my favorite "low techincal grade, but nice eye appeal" card. It has a very small speck of paper loss on the right border. I got it from a fellow board member. Agree with the others, buy the card and not the holder.

[Bambino]

Originally Posted by 4815162342

Don't ever be ashamed of how you choose to collect. It's your money, your time, and your passion. I collect PSA cards, even though the majority of this board collects SGC. Then there are some on this board who believe that TPGs are the ruination of the hobby. Collect however you like and you'll be happy.

That is very good advice Daryl...thank you.

[Bosox Blair]

Hi Mike,

My big picture answer is to collect however you feel good about it. If you want more cards for the budget, dropping to a lower grade is one way to do that.

Taking a closer read of your post, you list a 1965 Carlton RC as an example. For a modern card like that, I would only go after a very high grade. The values of modern cards like the Carlton have fallen through the floor in recent times. A big part of this has been the realization that there are thousands and thousands of them out there. This has led to a huge disparity in value based on grade. At this point, only the top grade examples can lay claim to any kind of "scarcity". So the prices for those are strong, while prices for 6 and 7 grades (and below) are much lower than they were 10-12 years ago.

I suppose what I'm suggesting is that if you care about the future value of modern cards you want to collect, I would not be so quick to go to a lower grade in order to buy more cards. If you had done that 10-12 years ago, your collection would be worth a lot less today than what you paid.

Pre-war cards are a different market.

Cheers,
Blair

[Bambino]

People ask the same about the real estate market - but do you guys think the market for more modern cards (like a Carlton or Seaver RC) has already hit rock bottom or do you think it can go even lower? I've been picking up some HOF RC's for prices I would have never dreamed possible 20 years ago.

Another question I have is - from what you've seen browsing eBay, would you say the asking prices reflect how low the market has gone or are sellers still in denial and asking for too much?

[ls7plus]

Excellent advice here throughout. With pre-war especially, you'll see a great variance in terms of the eye appeal between cards of the same grade. Some VG's will have Ex+ eye appeal, but will have been knocked down to a lower technical grade due to some flaw which makes the resultant grade accurate, but not necessarily that important to us "connoisseurs," who are looking for value. These cards will be easier to sell and will bring greater $$ in the future than cards of the same technical grade, but which appear ugly for the grade. If the card is not pleasing to you, chances are it will not be pleasing to prospective future buyers either. Leave buying the holder (such as the case of the $100,000 Fleer '86-'87 Jordan rookie) to the so-called "investor." There's so little difference between a so-called "pristine" modern card and a TPG Mint 9 that there is no way you can justify what's being paid for the former, in terms of real value.

With regard to '60's and up (and some would include '50's cards here) cards, there are at least hundreds and in many cases thousands of cards in Near Mint or better, which makes the prospect of any future value increases mediocre at best, unless we see quite an influx of collectors of this material. I would bet that within a given moderate price range, the values will be stagnant or worse, unless the economy takes a dramatic turn for the better. There are a fair number of '20's cards just now emerging as rare and significant, which can still be purchased for relatively moderate prices, which are a far better bet for future appreciation, IMHO. On the other hand, if you're just more a fan of the players of the '60's, and are not all that concerned about any increase in (or retention of) value, buy what you like. The enjoyment you'll get out of your cards will still be enormous!

Happy collecting,

Larry

[Doug]

I usually stick with cards grade in the 1-4 range due to that darn budget problem. I mainly buy '50s and '60s Topps cards which are pretty plentiful so I usually can sit back and wait for a card with a low technical grade, but above average eye appeal to pop up. There are plenty of cards that look like a PSA 5, but got graded a PSA 3 because of a small wrinkle or some kind of minor defect. My best advice would be just to buy the card you like at the price you are comfortable and don't worry about the number on the label.

[mjmj1966]

I can honestly say I really got caught up in the graded registry which is not the reason why I want to collect vintage. Don't know why this happen. I just want pieces of history. Collecting mostly new cards where everything is mostly mint probably started it. Guess I wanted all my cards to look like that. I've let auctions pass and walked pass cards I wanted because they weren't the grade I wanted even though they looked good. My whole collecting focus is going to change because I only really want cards that have nice eye appeal and I thought higher grades were the way to go. I want to thank everyone for the advice. I'm definitely a little smarter today.

[HOF Yankees]

for graded I just buy what vintage I can afford if I need to save for some then I will but other wise, only what i can afford

[Matthew H]

If the main reason you are buying graded cards is because you're new and don't want to get burned, I'd suggest cracking a couple out and studying the paper stock, printing, feel and smell. If you do like the holder too much to crack it out, try to find a local hobby shop and study their cards.

If you limit your self to just graded you'll really be missing out on great deals. There are mini "finds" always showing up on eBay, sometimes for sale by non collectors, in which case the cards are usually not graded. I personally like buying stuff that's fresh to the hobby.

After some time you'll be able to spot a fake in a scan, and you'll know not to buy cards with pictures so crappy that you can't see enough to make a judgment call.