Cancelled 1932 U.S. Caramel Cards....

[leftygrove10]

I recently picked up this cancelled 1932 U.S. Caramel of Lefty Grove. It is one of the only cancelled cards of Grove that I have seen. It makes me wonder how rare these cancelled cards are... They certainly seem more rare than cancelled George C. Miller cards. And they certainly seem more rare than UNcancelled U.S. Caramel cards. Perhaps when the kids received their baseball or fielder's glove, they were so happy that they threw away the cancelled U.S. Caramel baseball card that was returned with their new baseball or glove.

What is your experience with cancelled U.S. Caramel cards? Have you seen many? Do you have any? If you have some, show them off!

It's also interesting to note that the CANCELLED stamp on the back can be seen on the front of the card. I guess over time the ink seeped through the card....

[Leon]

Not familiar with the US Caramel cards having that stamp but admittedly I have never really looked...and if I did see one I just don't remember seeing it. There is some precedence for other series to have their backs canceled too, albeit with other words sometimes...(F66 shown)

[HRBAKER]

Brad,
From what I have seen I would tend to agree with you.
Uncancelled Geo Millers by far more scarce than uncancelled US Caramels.
Likewise, yours may be one of the few cancelled US Caramels I have seen while I have seen quite a few cancelled and cut Geo Millers. Nice card!

Jeff

[barrysloate]

The U.S. Caramels were canceled when kids sent in a complete set for a "valuable" prize. Since hardly any of them could find Lindstrom, how many complete sets could have been surrendered? I would guess not too many.

[leftygrove10]

Thanks, Jeff.... I believe that the SCD Standard Catalog shows (or used to show) as its example for the 1932 (or 1933) U.S. Caramel an example of a CANCELLED card. If not for that, I might not have even known that they existed.

I agree with you... UNcancelled George C. Miller cards are more scarce than UNcancelled U.S. Caramel cards... But when it comes to cancellations, I'll be that the U.S. Caramels are FAR MORE SCARCE than George C. Millers....

Maybe we'll see a few other cancelled U.S. Caramels here in this thread... Perhaps not... I wonder if anyone will show pictures of a baseball or fielder's glove that was obtained in exchange for these U.S. Caramels...

[leftygrove10]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

The U.S. Caramels were canceled when kids sent in a complete set for a "valuable" prize. Since hardly any of them could find Lindstrom, how many complete sets could have been surrendered? I would guess not too many.

You have a good point there, Barry....

[fkw]

There is only 2 Lindy Lindstrom cards known, 1 is canceled like yours if I remember right.
I would think, In order for it (Grove) to be canceled, a complete set would have been redeemed......... including the super rare Lindstrom

Very cool

they would have canceled every one of the cards in set not to give away the chase card, then returned them to kid with prize, I would think the ink on front is from the card above it in stack after they were stamped.

edited...I see Barry answered the same way, maybe I should read the replies before

[leftygrove10]

I think the Cancelled Lindstrom card is the one shown in the SCD Catalog.

I know of cancelled cards of Paul Waner, Chick Hafey, Wally Berger, Ed Brandt and George Earnshaw for sale right now. They all must have been cancelled together -- possibly with the Lindstrom that's shown in the SCD Standard Catalog and with this Grove.

I guess some might consider this stamp "The Kiss of Death" for the card's value and beauty, but I beg to differ.... I think it's neat, especially when you consider that this could be the only cancelled Grove in existence -- based on what Frank said above....

[HRBAKER]

Brad,
I agree. In this instance I would rather have the cancelled one.

[barrysloate]

Weren't the U.S. Caramels also cancelled with a punchhole in them? I seem to remember the canceled Lindstrom had one, but my memory isn't always accurate these days.

[fkw]

Hi Barry, if you look at the SCD Standard Catalog under US Caramel, the example picture is the Lindstrom card that was "cancelled", it has both the stamp and also 2 unique holes punched at bottom.

[barrysloate]

Thanks Frank. There was a large hoard found in the 90's that included the cancelled Lindstrom plus dozens of other R328. Do you or anyone else remember the details of that group?

[fkw]

Only thing I remember is that Larry Fritsch at one times a few years ago owned both of the known Lindstroms. He had an ad in his mail catalog showing both cards with prices in the $80K range for each card if I remember right. Dont know if any sold back then, or who owned them now that he has passed on.

[HRBAKER]

Volume 71 2001-02 Catalog

[barrysloate]

I auctioned the one on the right in 1999. The winning bidder consigned it later to SCP, and Frisch won it from them.

To add, I sold mine raw, as back then I wasn't getting cards graded (hard to believe). It is currently in a PSA 3 holder, and yet Fritsch omits that information from his catalog. You would think he would deem that important.

[HRBAKER]

I think that it is interesting that he was asking $10 for enlarged scans from potential buyers. I can't imagine you would have a lot of tire kickers @ $175K.

[leftygrove10]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

I auctioned the one on the right in 1999. The winning bidder consigned it later to SCP, and Frisch won it from them.

To add, I sold mine raw, as back then I wasn't getting cards graded (hard to believe). It is currently in a PSA 3 holder, and yet Frisch omits that information from his catalog. You would think he would deem that important.

Barry:

Did the original owner of the uncancelled card consign it to you for auction? Or was there someone else between him and you?

Do you happen to remember any of the final hammer prices for the uncancelled card? Just curious.

[leftygrove10]

Any ideas why the Lindstrom had a cancellation mark AND hole punches? And why did the other cards only have the CANCELLED stamp rather than both the stamp AND the hole punches?

[leftygrove10]

The back of the card gives a value of $1 to the baseball that you would get for sending in a complete set. I used the inflation calculator at the link below to see that $1 in 1933 corresponds to $16.66 in 2010 dollars. (You can't use 2011 in the calculator.) I guess I am a little surprised that they would be reluctant to give away prizes valued at such a small amount.... Even given the depression....

http://www.westegg.com/inflation/infl.cgi

[barrysloate]

Brad- yes, the owner consigned it directly to me. He found one of my ads and called, and we just seemed to hit it off. He contacted other dealers but felt they treated him either rudely or were dishonest. The card sold for 92K with the juice. When it was resold by SCP, it only achieved around 79K but that was at the time of a down market.

[leftygrove10]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Brad- yes, the owner consigned it directly to me. He found one of my ads and called, and we just seemed to hit it off. He contacted other dealers but felt they treated him either rudely or were dishonest. The card sold for 92K with the juice. When it was resold by SCP, it only achieved around 79K but that was at the time of a down market.

Wow! Then Frisch put quite a mark up on the card. I would guess that Frisch (Jeff) still owns both cards with prices like that....

[barrysloate]

Last I heard both cards were still in the Fritsch collection.

[fkw]

Wow I was way off on what I thought Fritsch was asking the them I guess the $80K was stuck in my head because thats what I thought they were worth at the time ??? I dont know...

Thanks for posting the catalog page