Perhaps the most damaging piece in the Nash/Halper/Lifson saga yet...

[base_ball]

A stunning report about the 1951 Mantle rookie jersey...stick with the piece because the explosion happens 3/4 of the way in. Mr. Lifson has some 'splainin' to do (preferably not thru an attorney). Wow!

http://haulsofshame.com/blog/?p=2022#more-2022

[Robert_Lifson]

First of all I'd like to know who I am responding to, I think that's fair, and ask what it is that you would like explained. This article is written by someone who we have had an ongoing legal battle with and owes REA hundreds of thousands of dollars for a consent order and stipulation of settlement for fraud. I'd be happy to send you a copy of the full written response to Nash if you provide your email address.

Sincerely,

Robert Lifson

[Leon]

Joseph- you will need to come out with your full name. I am in the middle of something I have to do at the moment or would find it, but in a little while your identity will need to be known, per the forum rules. I am sorry but I can't totally address this right now. I will when I am finished with a con call training I am on currently....best regards

[bigtrain]

that Pete's biggest hit was "Pop Goes The Weasel" and he keeps popping up with these attacks against REA. Granted Mr. Nash has done some "nice" detective work regarding the jersey, but he has zero credibility with respect to Mr. Lifson, who has a substantial judgment against him from a lawsuit in which he admitted fraud. I know Mr. Nash only by reputation but every time I mention his name to folks in Cooperstown, eyes start rolling.

[prewarsports]

A forgery is something that is intended to deceive and a replica is a copy of something with disclosure. I see no problem with something that was sold as real, then under further analysis is discovered not be real relabeled as a replica. Was it a forgery originally? Yes. Is it also a "replica" when fully disclosed exactly what it is and not being sold with the intent to decieve? I believe so.

Just my opinion.

[Ladder7]

Good gumshoe work there... The whole thing stinks, plain and simple.

[base_ball]

My name is Joseph Jesselli. I have sent Lifson an e-mail taking him up on his offer. I would hope that he would consider posting it for all of the board to see.

[base_ball]

I’ve communicated with Rob who, understandably, doesn’t want to air his feud with Nash in this forum. As for the very uniform turning up as a replica in an REA auction a decade after its donation to the Hall, Lifson said that the jersey was merely one of the neat items that was consigned by the Halper estate.

[hcv123]

Hi Rob,

I realize the guy behind this stuff is probably in ways a big dead beat and understand you have a judgement against him which he is at last check not paying. I understand he puts a "dramatic" spin on much of what he writes. I understand his character must be questioned. That stated, he is putting out what seems like some pretty distillable clear facts that beg to be responded to. Please. Are you claiming through your attorney that you didn't know this was the same jersey the hall of fame had been given? How could that be? How many '51 Mantle Jerseys - replica or otherwise could Barry have had? You are a very smart, respected guy - please help restore some confidence in your supporters out here - help us understand what we are missing - not by questioning who is writing this stuff, but by rebutting his facts. Please.

-Howard Chasser

[BrockJacob]

So the Hall of Fame, once determining the jersey was a fake, gave the jersey back to the Halper family so they could sell it again and make more money off it? Am I understanding that correctly?

[Robert_Lifson]

Howard, I had nothing to do with the Hall of Fame transaction, it predated the Halper auction, and when it occurred I had no idea what was even included. Halper did a lot of wheeling and dealing and had a million items. There was no way for us to even begin to know what Halper had, what he had gotten rid of, what went to the Hall of Fame, or what he kept. I have never been a jersey guy but just looking through a few old auction catalogs over the past day, I immediately found one 1951 Mantle uniform and believe there was another (sold by other auctions) that were sold in the 1990s and noted specifically as being from Barry Halper, so the answer to your question “How many '51 Mantle Jerseys - replica or otherwise could Barry have had?” is at least two, maybe three! (not including the limited edition signed 1951 Mantle jersey replicas, which he also had). This jersey in question was not in the 1999 Halper auction. I found it with his collection after his passing in 2005 and had no idea it had anything to do with the Hall of Fame. Our job was to auction the material in the estate. For this jersey, JSA said the autograph was real, but the jersey was not. It was still a great display piece that we thought a lot of collectors would want. We described it as a signed replica jersey. That’s how we describe jerseys that are not real but are signed and great for display.

Sincerely,

Robert Lifson

[FUBAR]

is forging a replica even possible?? wouldn't it just be another replica?

[roarfrom34]

Originally Posted by REA

Howard, I had nothing to do with the Hall of Fame transaction, it predated the Halper auction, and when it occurred I had no idea what was even included. Halper did a lot of wheeling and dealing and had a million items. There was no way for us to even begin to know what Halper had, what he had gotten rid of, what went to the Hall of Fame, or what he kept. I have never been a jersey guy but just looking through a few old auction catalogs over the past day, I immediately found one 1951 Mantle uniform and believe there was another (sold by other auctions) that were sold in the 1990s and noted specifically as being from Barry Halper, so the answer to your question “How many '51 Mantle Jerseys - replica or otherwise could Barry have had?” is at least two, maybe three! (not including the limited edition signed 1951 Mantle jersey replicas, which he also had). This jersey in question was not in the 1999 Halper auction. I found it with his collection after his passing in 2005 and had no idea it had anything to do with the Hall of Fame. Our job was to auction the material in the estate. For this jersey, JSA said the autograph was real, but the jersey was not. It was still a great display piece that we thought a lot of collectors would want. We described it as a signed replica jersey. That’s how we describe jerseys that are not real but are signed and great for display.

Sincerely,

Robert Lifson

I know JSA authenticates signatures, but I know they don't authenticate unforms...

The simple thing would be for the HOF to simply admit that the jersey in question is still in their archives (real or not).

Possibly the guy who did all the catalog/inventory work for Halper would know how many '51 replicas he had.

[roarfrom34]

I realize that this is somewhat unrelated to this post, but does anyone have any pictures from the Halper Hall of Fame exhibit (when they replicated his hobby room)? I would love to see what it looked like.

[mr2686]

Roar...if you don't find any pictures, check out a dvd called "The Ultimate Baseball Collector's Collection". You can find it on Amazon, sometimes for less than $5. It has two parts to it including one part on Barry's collection at his home. Real, replica, fake or whatever, it's still impressive to see how he displayed his stuff.

[roarfrom34]

Originally Posted by mr2686

Roar...if you don't find any pictures, check out a dvd called "The Ultimate Baseball Collector's Collection". You can find it on Amazon, sometimes for less than $5. It has two parts to it including one part on Barry's collection at his home. Real, replica, fake or whatever, it's still impressive to see how he displayed his stuff.

I have that DVD; I was just curious how closely the HOF replicated his set up (I heard it was fantastic)?

[hcv123]

Originally Posted by REA

Howard, I had nothing to do with the Hall of Fame transaction, it predated the Halper auction, and when it occurred I had no idea what was even included. Halper did a lot of wheeling and dealing and had a million items. There was no way for us to even begin to know what Halper had, what he had gotten rid of, what went to the Hall of Fame, or what he kept. I have never been a jersey guy but just looking through a few old auction catalogs over the past day, I immediately found one 1951 Mantle uniform and believe there was another (sold by other auctions) that were sold in the 1990s and noted specifically as being from Barry Halper, so the answer to your question “How many '51 Mantle Jerseys - replica or otherwise could Barry have had?” is at least two, maybe three! (not including the limited edition signed 1951 Mantle jersey replicas, which he also had). This jersey in question was not in the 1999 Halper auction. I found it with his collection after his passing in 2005 and had no idea it had anything to do with the Hall of Fame. Our job was to auction the material in the estate. For this jersey, JSA said the autograph was real, but the jersey was not. It was still a great display piece that we thought a lot of collectors would want. We described it as a signed replica jersey. That’s how we describe jerseys that are not real but are signed and great for display.

Sincerely,

Robert Lifson

Thank you.

[Exhibitman]

The article is misleading; how does "replica" repeatedly used in the title and the body of the auction listing mislead anyone?

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

The article is misleading; how does "replica" repeatedly used in the title and the body of the auction listing mislead anyone?

as the moderator I really shouldn't comment publicly too much....

[hcv123]

Originally Posted by Leon

as the moderator I really shouldn't comment publicly too much....

If something is made as a replica, typically it is made with "new" materials to look like the original. There would further likely be less attention to detail. There is often some telltale marking or sign so nobody confuses it too easily or has the temptation to try to pass it as an original. The amount or work that was done to the jersey in question especially the use of vintage material and no mark to indicate otherwise could lead one to believe that the original intent (not the auction, but whoever had the jersey made originally) here was to mislead, not replicate.

[drc]

I have no opinion on this jersey, but legitimate replicas almost never are identical to the original. They usually are clearly different in a number of details, and intentionally made that way by the maker. Many game used collectors would consider it unethical to make perfectly identical replicas -- but they consider those retail 'throw backs' to be cool just like many of the rest of us.

My last note is forgery requires intent. Forgery requires that an item was made with the intent of deceiving. If you make a damn good replica, many would say that's an unwise thing to do, but if you didn't intend to deceive that isn't forgery.

[19cbb]

The Halper saga continues...

http://haulsofshame.com/blog/?p=1443

[judsonhamlin]

I did read this latest article and, to summarize, the documents from the NYPL were stolen between 1972, when they were last seen in situ, and 1977, when Halper had them in his possession and was playing show and tell with Bill Madden. Each time I see a new piece on this story, regardless of the source, I find it harder and harder to accept that Halper was just a dupe. It just stinks of deeper involvement or knowledge of criminality.