Mastro Auctions Mastro's Stuff?

[T206Collector]

Just got this email from Legendary Auctions.....

Legendary Auctions to Offer ?Collection of Hobby Pioneer Bill Mastro in Special December 8-9 Catalog Auction

Significant Collection Renowned ?for Impeccable Condition and Rarity

Legendary Auctions has been selected to handle the sale of The Bill Mastro Collection. As one of the hobby’s most widely recognized pioneers, Bill Mastro concentrated his collecting interests on iconic pieces of sports memorabilia that were among the world’s most prestigious in terms of both condition and display appeal. The collection of more than 800 lots will be auctioned as a stand-alone event in December. Bidding is scheduled to begin on Monday, November 22nd and close on Wednesday and Thursday December 8th and 9th. A few of the noteworthy items being sold from The Bill Mastro Collection include:

• A 1927 Babe Ruth Yankees payroll check – cashed the day Ruth hit his 60th Home Run;

• A signed handprint of Babe Ruth;

• A 1917-1921 Babe Ruth H&B game used bat;

• A 1927 Babe Ruth and Lou Gehrig Barnstorming advertising poster;

• A 1915 Champion Boston Red Sox panoramic team photo featuring Babe Ruth;

• A 1910s “Turkish Trophies” display (in original frame) with Ty Cobb L-1 Leather;

• A 1909 “Colgan’s Chips” Honus Wagner advertising sign;

• A 1910 Addie Joss Day panorama;

• A 1903 Carl Horner American League team composite.

• An 1894 Temple Cup print;

• An 1884 “Climax Tobacco” composite with original mailing tube;

• A 1934 “Tour of Japan” team signed ball with original Tamazawa box;

• A Babe Ruth “Home Run Special” single signed ball;

• A 1942 “War Bond Effort” team signed ball;

• A Babe Ruth signed store model bat;

• A 1954 Wilson Wieners complete set (with backs) uncut sheet on advertising display;

• A 1928 “Fro Joy” Babe Ruth die-cut counter sign;

• A 1933 Goudey uncut sheet (24 cards) including Babe Ruth;

• A 1926 Champion New York Yankees Cosmo team panoramic photo;

• A 1912 Champion New York Giants oversized team photo featuring Christy Mathewson;

• A 1925 Colored World Series Kansas City vs. Hillsdale panoramic photo;

• A circa 1909 “Reach Sporting Goods” metal advertising sign;

• A circa 1909 Honus Wagner bronze statue – from Wagner’s estate;

• A 1910s “Ty Cobb Shoes” advertising sign;

• A 1920s Babe Ruth “Sporting News” die-cut advertising sign.


Experts at Legendary Auctions expect collectors to be extremely interested in owning a piece of The Bill Mastro Collection, for a number of reasons. “First of all, everyone recognizes the fact that Bill Mastro has been a major force in the hobby for decades, and it’s universally acknowledged that his contributions have been significant,” said Doug Allen, president, Legendary Auctions. Beyond that Allen said, Mastro was always first and foremost a collector, and what he loved to collect was perfection. “Quality items in pristine condition always attract considerable attention at auction,” said Allen. “Bill’s collection has always been one of the most meticulous in terms of condition and attention to detail. Collectors will pay a premium for items in exemplary grades of preservation such as this. The collection’s across-the-board, unparalleled quality truly makes every item one-of-a-kind.”
For more information on the auction of The Bill Mastro Collection call (708) 889-9380 or go to www.legendaryauctions.com.



17542 Chicago Avenue
Lansing, IL 60438
(708) 889-9380
www.legendaryauctions.com

[Rob D.]

I guess the timing prohibited Mr. Mastro from consigning to REA.

[Matt]

I wonder if they'd be willing to expose bidder records for this one after the fact...

[Anthony S.]

I love that first sentence in the first paragraph of the press release: "Legendary Auctions has been selected to handle the sale of The Bill Mastro Collection."

Must have been a rigorous selection process.

We have known Bill Mastro for more than 35 years. When we first entered the hobby he was extremely helpful. When we went through some difficult personal times and an illness 10 years ago, he was kind and supportive.

He always provided us with a fair assessment of value, and we never had an unpleasant experience with Mastro Steinbach or Mastro Auctions.
People make mistakes, and all of us sometimes do we things we regret.

In may ways, we are sad that Bill is selling his collection. He was a true collector and had an exceptional eye for great items.

Whatever happened or did not happen with regard to the accusations should be left to the Justice System.

In so many ways this is sad news for our hobby, On a personal basis, we wish Bill and his family well.


Bruce Dorskind
America's Toughest Want List
bdorskind@dorskindgroup.com

[Rob D.]

Originally Posted by Anthony S.

I love that first sentence in the first paragraph of the press release: "Legendary Auctions has been selected to handle the sale of The Bill Mastro Collection."

Must have been a rigorous selection process.

Time after time our hobby proves that it truly is one of the best sources of unintentional humor.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Yankeefan51

Whatever happened or did not happen with regard to the accusations should be left to the Justice System.

Yes - no need to have concern about shill bidding in an auction of the person's items accused of it. It is a coincidence that they're going to be able to sell his stuff before the FBI report.

[Matthew H]

“Turkish Trophies” displays are one of the most beautiful Pisces in the hobby, imo

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Matt

Yes - no need to have concern about shill bidding in an auction of the person's items accused of it. It is a coincidence that they're going to be able to sell his stuff before the FBI report.

How do you know the timing of what the FBI is doing?

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

How do you know the timing of what the FBI is doing?

Fair enough. It seems as though this is an effort to sell off his collection before the report comes out, as if the items might somehow have less value after the report comes out; perhaps the FBI will beat the hammer.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I don't think there will be a report, if my understanding is correct there is a grand jury and either it will or it won't hand down an indictment, and the case will proceed from there.

[calvindog]

Poor Bill. It will really kill him to watch his stuff being sold while he is unable to work the computer and place bids on his lots. Oh well, luckily Doug is still there.

[Leon]

I think it's always a bit sad when a collector sells his collection. Bill has always been nice to me so that is the way I treat him too. If he did something wrong then let the justice system handle it. As for the long ago comment about "well, if someone shill bid you how could you be friendly with them?" I would say to that, that if I was targeted then yes, I would be very unhappy and sever the friendship. If it was a blanket issue and everyone was targeted, then I can still be friendly with that person but they will have to make restitution and pay their dues. I am sure some will take this all the wrong way and make jokes and sarcasm. That is ok too. If that is what gives someone enjoyment then more power to them. On a personal note it will be interesting to see what the Horner League Compostite goes for. From the small screenshot shown I would say mine is comparable, so it should be interesting. I wish Bill the best......

As for the selection of auction houses....a foregone conclusion. Legendary will do well with it.

[Rob D.]

Originally Posted by Leon

I think it's always a bit sad when a collector sells his collection. Bill has always been nice to me so that is the way I treat him too. If he did something wrong then let the justice system handle it. As for the long ago comment about "well, if someone shill bid you how could you be friendly with them?" I would say to that, that if I was targeted then yes, I would be very unhappy and sever the friendship. If it was a blanket issue and everyone was targeted, then I can still be friendly with that person but they will have to make restitution and pay their dues. I am sure some will take this all the wrong way and make jokes and sarcasm. That is ok too. If that is what gives someone enjoyment then more power to them. On a personal note it will be interesting to see what the Horner League Compostite goes for. From the small screenshot shown I would say mine is comparable, so it should be interesting. I wish Bill the best......

As for the selection of auction houses....a foregone conclusion. Legendary will do well with it.

This isn't a comment on who might have done what in the case of Mastro Auctions but more of a general rule of mine: I assume that if I'm truly friends with someone, and they decide to engage in an activity in which they take advantage of people, I'll be spared because of that friendship. Otherwise I don't think they consider me a friend at all but rather just another mark/sucker.

(That's 100 percent sarcasm free, by the way.)

[Peter_Spaeth]

Leon's comment reminds me of the line in Catch-22 when someone tells Yossarian he shouldn't take it personally that he is being shot at, because they are shooting at everyone.

[calvindog]

In fairness, I've often used the argument at a sentencing for clients convicted of fraud that they didn't target anyone individually, just everyone who crossed their paths or invested with them, whether it be friends, family or perfect strangers. I've found that such an argument has really resonated with judges who recognize this as a mitigating factor.

[Matthew H]

I wonder if worries of shill bidding will affect the prices realized...

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by calvindog

In fairness, I've often used the argument at a sentencing for clients convicted of fraud that they didn't target anyone individually, just everyone who crossed their paths or invested with them, whether it be friends, family or perfect strangers. I've found that such an argument has really resonated with judges who recognize this as a mitigating factor.

Thanks for the laugh, Jeff. It's been a long day...

If it was my client with all the 'stuff' swirling around his former business and former business partners I'd probably advise him to have a true third party sell it all rather than anyone with connections to my former business, just so there is no appearance of impropriety. Not saying anything will be wrong, just that as this thread shows the selection of auctioneers perhaps needlessly raises questions that might be better left unasked.

And I have to ask: does anyone think Mastro will have trouble getting paid on his consignments?

[Leon]

I am certainly not advocating my view onto others, only giving my opinion. I didn't say it was a good defense either, of course it isn't. I didn't say it was anything except my opinion. I understand it's not a popular one either. That's ok. At least you know where I stand on it, right or wrong. It's the way I feel about it. Hopefully, I am at least entitled to my opinion? regards

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

In fairness, I've often used the argument at a sentencing for clients convicted of fraud that they didn't target anyone individually, just everyone who crossed their paths or invested with them, whether it be friends, family or perfect strangers. I've found that such an argument has really resonated with judges who recognize this as a mitigating factor.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Leon

I am certainly not advocating my view onto others, only giving my opinion. I didn't say it was a good defense either, of course it isn't. I didn't say it was anything except my opinion. I understand it's not a popular one either. That's ok. At least you know where I stand on it, right or wrong. It's the way I feel about it. Hopefully, I am at least entitled to my opinion? regards

Well of course you are entitled, I think it's just hard to understand why (hypothetically of course) being the target of a broader crime would be more palatable than being the target of a more focused one?

[Leon]

BTW, I am not defending anyone if they did something wrong. If they comitted a crime then they should pay the same penalty as anyone else. It's not that difficult to comprehend, really. I have the ability to see the difference between a legal issue and friendship though, and prefer to see it that way. If others prefer to not like someone because of something they did to them, even if it wasn't targeted, I see that point too. I am multi-tasking in that respect. best regards

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Well of course you are entitled, I think it's just hard to understand why (hypothetically of course) being the target of a broader crime would be more palatable than being the target of a more focused one?

You said it in your question, Peter. I can seperate the fact that someone did something wrong to lots of people (hypothetically) and I was one of them OR the fact I was targeted? Yeah, to me I can distinguish between them. I am not saying anyone else should, but I do. regards

ps....and after some more thought on the whole subject I do reserve the right to change my mind at any time in the future I could see me being pissed about being ripped off (hypothetically of course)..

[Peter_Spaeth]

It's an interesting question, but I guess I'm with Yossarian on this one.

[oldjudge]

I would like to echo Bruce's comments. I have known Bill for a long time and found him to be a fun guy and a caring person. He has always been one of my favorite people in the hobby and I only wish him and his lovely family well.

[e107collector]

Does anyone know if there are any vintage cards in Bill's collection? If so, what can one expect?

Or did he mainly focus on memorabilia?

Thanks,
Tony

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Well of course you are entitled, I think it's just hard to understand why (hypothetically of course) being the target of a broader crime would be more palatable than being the target of a more focused one?

I had my home loan through Countrywide and some knucklehead stole all of Countrywide's customers social security numbers...I was mad at Countrywide for this happening, but I'd be a lot madder if the knucklehead had only targeted me because then it would be personal.

[batsballsbases]

I to have know Bill for many years and I to like Leon reserve the right to let the justice system try and finish what they started. If you ask me do I believe something was going on absolutely! But do I also believe that many of the other auction houses are just as guilty of this pratice absolutely! It is very hard to know if you were ever "pushed up" in price without someone from the inside with that personal knowledge coming forward. For now as we know the bottom line is that MOST of the great items that we all want will be coming from some auction house. Private finds are very few in this day and age of the computer. Having just won 10 lots in the Legendary auction ,my feeling was that I paid a fair price for what I wanted. Bottom line for me is I set a personal limit for what the item is worth with the buyers premium and that it. If the item goes beyond that well good luck to the new owner. I had beat this subject to death over the years and it drove me crazy! Now I collect what I need and want with a price limit,this way I dont have to put the gun to my head every time I won an item and ask myself "WAS I JUST SHILLED"

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

I had my home loan through Countrywide and some knucklehead stole all of Countrywide's customers social security numbers...I was mad at Countrywide for this happening, but I'd be a lot madder if the knucklehead had only targeted me because then it would be personal.

Except Countrywide didn't rip you off, a person did. And that person wasn't your good old friend. In fact he didn't know you at all.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Except Countrywide didn't rip you off, a person did. And that person wasn't your good old friend. In fact he didn't know you at all.

And you don't know if Bill Mastro shilled anything.

Yet.

[HRBAKER]

Originally Posted by batsballsbases

I to have know Bill for many years and I to like Leon reserve the right to let the justice system try and finish what they started. If you ask me do I believe something was going on absolutely! But do I also believe that many of the other auction houses are just as guilty of this pratice absolutely! It is very hard to know if you were ever "pushed up" in price without someone from the inside with that personal knowledge coming forward. For now as we know the bottom line is that MOST of the great items that we all want will be coming from some auction house. Private finds are very few in this day and age of the computer. Having just won 10 lots in the Legendary auction ,my feeling was that I paid a fair price for what I wanted. Bottom line for me is I set a personal limit for what the item is worth with the buyers premium and that it. If the item goes beyond that well good luck to the new owner. I had beat this subject to death over the years and it drove me crazy! Now I collect what I need and want with a price limit,this way I dont have to put the gun to my head every time I won an item and ask myself "WAS I JUST SHILLED"

So now you just assume that you are but no more than you are willing to be?

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

And you don't know if Bill Mastro shilled anything.

Yet.

Actually, I do.

Regardless, how does your analogy fit in the discussion of the issue at hand?

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Actually, I do.

Regardless, how does your analogy fit in the discussion of the issue at hand?

I wasn't really making an analogy, but Peter seemed shocked that someone would feel differently about being a victim of a broad crime compared to a focused crime. I merely gave an example of where it was pretty easy to feel different.

As for your knowledge of Bill Mastro's shilling if it is indeed true I hope we all get to see that proof some day.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Yossarian: Those bastards are trying to kill me.
1st Lt. Milo Minderbinder: No one is trying to kill you sweetheart. Now eat your dessert like a good boy.
Yossarian: Oh yeah? Then why are they shooting at me Milo?
Dobbs: They're shooting at everyone Yossarian.
Yossarian: And what difference does that make?
Dobbs: Look Yossarian, suppose, I mean just suppose everyone thought the same way you do.
Yossarian: Then I'd be a damn fool to think any different.

[base_ball]

I wonder which auction house is going to be lucky enough to score the A. Alfred Taubman and DeDe Brooks collections?

[batsballsbases]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

So now you just assume that you are but no more than you are willing to be?

Jeff,
That is correct!

[rdixon1208]

Originally Posted by Leon

I am certainly not advocating my view onto others, only giving my opinion. I didn't say it was a good defense either, of course it isn't. I didn't say it was anything except my opinion. I understand it's not a popular one either. That's ok. At least you know where I stand on it, right or wrong. It's the way I feel about it. Hopefully, I am at least entitled to my opinion? regards

Wrong. And uncharacteristically illogical.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

As for your knowledge of Bill Mastro's shilling if it is indeed true I hope we all get to see that proof some day.

If proof is shown in the form of multiple witnesses, documents and tapes at a later date, the usual suspects on the board will say, "well, I'm not convinced."

If proof is shown in the form of a guilty verdict at a later date, the usual suspects on the board will say, "the jury just doesn't understand our hobby."

If proof is shown in the form of a guilty plea at a later date, the usual suspects on the board will say, "they plead guilty but they just did so to spare the hobby embarrassment."

Everyone has an agenda. Mine is that I don't like getting ripped off, period. Some others may not mind getting ripped off because they perceive that they have made or could make more money with Mastro/Allen than they lost due to fraud. Just a thought.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by rdixon1208

Wrong. And uncharacteristically illogical.

Yes, I am sorry if I offended anyone with the way I feel. Illogical?

[tbob]

Originally Posted by calvindog

In fairness, I've often used the argument at a sentencing for clients convicted of fraud that they didn't target anyone individually, just everyone who crossed their paths or invested with them, whether it be friends, family or perfect strangers. I've found that such an argument has really resonated with judges who recognize this as a mitigating factor.

Kind of like clients who are convicted of murdering their parents asking for mercy because they are orphans.

[rdixon1208]

Originally Posted by Leon

Yes, I am sorry if I offended anyone with the way I feel. Illogical?

Of course you can choose to be friends with someone no matter what wrongs they've done to you. Nobody should be offended by that. But it kind of sounded like you were trying to justify it (even if you didn't need to) by saying that he ripped everyone off...not just you. That attempt at justification is what I thought was illogical.

[autograf]

I think it's funny that some people, unnamed, take the hardest line possible against Mastro/Mastronet/Allen/Legendary, yet still bid in their auctions. Hopefully none of those are on this thread.

I don't really have any feelings whatsoever about Bill Mastro and his collection. I'm neither sad nor glad he's selling. More stuff in the marketplace I guess but I don't know him personally although those who apparently do feel he's a decent enough guy.

We've debated this crap ad nauseum (sp?) here and didn't solve anything then and haven't solved anything here in this thread. The bottom line, for now, is all these people are walking around, running the same type of business they have for years. So....until the rubber meets the road, it's all speculation.

Articles by O'Keefe and gyrations on a message board don't put people in jail. Judges & Juries do......

[Leon]

Originally Posted by rdixon1208

Of course you can choose to be friends with someone no matter what wrongs they've done to you. Nobody should be offended by that. But it kind of sounded like you were trying to justify it (even if you didn't need to) by saying that he ripped everyone off...not just you. That attempt at justification is what I thought was illogical.

That justification would be crazy. There is no justifying shill bidding, if it happened. Personally, I don't know for sure that it did. I have my suspicions but I will leave them at that and let the justice system take care of it.

[Jewish-collector]

That's what this message board is for. Just to vent. Nothing gets solved on here. It's sort of like Rosh Hashanah. No new prayers are said. Same ones every year.

L'Shanah Tova to those who observe Rosh Hashanah.

[calvindog]

Tom, no need to be coy, you can call me out by name, I won't cry. And only on Net 54 do the victims get blamed more than the perps. Lucky for me Doug banned me. Maybe he got tired of ripping me off? Either way, it's all in good fun.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by calvindog

And only on Net 54 do the victims get blamed more than the perps.

Well the victims are obviously masochists so it's all good.

[autograf]

Jeff....thought you were banned but I know if there was a tough Cobb and/or Chase you might be in the game if you weren't.....you wouldn't be alone carrying the torch against them and bidding in their auctions though.....just one of the torch legs....

[David Atkatz]

Has nobody noticed that many of these items had been offered--and sold--in previous Mastro auctions? How is it that Bill owns them? A number of questions regarding the Mastro bidding process now come to mind.

[calvindog]

David, in order to begin answering that question you'd need to first define the word "sold." in Mastroland sometimes lots are "sold" over and over and over -- and never leave the owner's possession. Of course, this loose definition of "sold" is not solely limited to Mastro auctions but has been regularly applied in auctions favored by many consignors who post on Net 54.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I thought Mastro employees were allowed to bid in their auctions, and I recall being told Bill himself was bidding at a live auction at a National. So couldn't he simply have won the items?