Backs Finished! How about a 1916 M101-4/5 "Sporting News/Mendelsohn" Thread

[boneheadandrube]

I recently completed the ad back run for this series with 18 cards (minus a couple font and spacing variations). I can see there are other people here collecting these, so if you collect them with ad backs or blanks please post them here! This is a great set with a lot of collecting options that I enjoyed learning about during the journey. Lets see some for fun and maybe learn something!

1916 Group-1.jpg
1916 Group-2.jpg
1916 Group-3.jpg

[Leon]

As someone who has always enjoyed the backs of the M101-4/5s, congrats!

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[boneheadandrube]

Originally Posted by Leon

As someone who has always enjoyed the backs of the M101-4/5s, congrats!

.

Thanks Leon! I watched you chase type cards in your old collection for years, I think that sort of trickled down into my motivation to do this back run somehow. Now what? LOL!

[Rhotchkiss]

Awesome, congrats. So cool to see them all together like that.

[brianp-beme]

Plenty of backs in your display that are chock full of elusiveness. My m101-4/5 Black Sox'ers are happy that they don't have to compete against your cards at the county fair, as they would not come away with anything more than a participation ribbon, except of course if they are judging this year in Trimmed and Writing on Back categories.

Brian

[Casey2296]

Awesome run Greg, congrats on closing it out.

[stutor]

Wow. Those look phenomenal together. Congratulations…I bet that took a while!!!

[oldjudge]

Great job, Greg! Are you going to work on the back varieties? For example, there are three different Gimbels backs, etc.

[boneheadandrube]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Great job, Greg! Are you going to work on the back varieties? For example, there are three different Gimbels backs, etc.

Thanks Jay, I don't think I'm going to try for those. Tilted font and 1/8" spacing differences might qualify as "minutiae" for me and give me an excuse to pass
I think I'll be casually trying to upgrade a few instead, i.e. common-to-HOF and/or condition on a few if they ever come up.

Brian, thanks for posting some cards! I wasn't able to get any Black Sox myself!

[boneheadandrube]

I ended up with some extras in the quest also:

1916 Group-4.jpg

For those interested, the last 4 backs to complete the group were

- Herpolsheimer
- Morehouse Baking
- Ware's Basement
- Standard Biscuit

I was lucky with this search because Mall Theatre and Burgess & Nash were offered in the same auction last year. I would have thought those two would be among the last.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by boneheadandrube

Thanks Jay, I don't think I'm going to try for those. Tilted font and 1/8" spacing differences might qualify as "minutiae" for me and give me an excuse to pass
I think I'll be casually trying to upgrade a few instead, i.e. common-to-HOF and/or condition on a few if they ever come up.

Brian, thanks for posting some cards! I wasn't able to get any Black Sox myself!

Greg- C'mon, the master set of those isn't that difficult. Another 5-15 yrs and you should be able to do it!

Here is some of the set I used to own (not anymore), to show the minutiae. I think I was missing 1 of the different Everyodys...if I recall correctly.

[boneheadandrube]

Leon, looks like I ended up with that Sisler!

[oldjudge]

Leon--That was a fantastic group. Since you put that together a second Wares back has been found. I'll post an image of both later so people can see the difference.

[GeoPoto]

(An aside: I am always shocked to see the blackened ball selected to be part of the (presumably) staged photograph used for Griff's cards. I am well aware that balls were precious and used well-beyond when their original shape, let alone whiteness, had long been compromised. But what continues to amaze me is that blackened balls were so normal to their way of thinking that it wouldn't have occurred to them to use a newer ball. They may even have figured using a new ball would make the picture look odd.)

I'm limited to Washington cards, so I have back-runs for individual players, but it is hard to approach all possible backs. In fact, five is my current maximum. From a type-collection standpoint, I can only muster nine different backs across all Washington players. Fortunately, my Washington collection includes Clark Griffith, who can cover five of them:

[nolemmings]

Kudos Greg, that’s a great grouping. I am fortunate to have completed the back run also, with the variations. Leon, here’s the one Everybody’s back I believe you were lacking, along with some other of my ungraded faves (the Faber has a reversed back, one of only two in the set I have seen with this feature):

[boneheadandrube]

Some great cards being shown! I think the three nicest Holmes backs I've seen so far...

[IMAXMAX]

Congrats Greg!
(and to Todd, Leon, George, and Brian as well)

I'm still early in the journey, but here's my progress report so far:

[boneheadandrube]

Nice run Daniel, keep going!

[nolemmings]

Originally Posted by GeoPoto

(An aside: I am always shocked to see the blackened ball selected to be part of the (presumably) staged photograph used for Griff's cards. I am well aware that balls were precious and used well-beyond when their original shape, let alone whiteness, had long been compromised. But what continues to amaze me is that blackened balls were so normal to their way of thinking that it wouldn't have occurred to them to use a newer ball. They may even have figured using a new ball would make the picture look odd.)

I'm limited to Washington cards, so I have back-runs for individual players, but it is hard to approach all possible backs. In fact, five is my current maximum. From a type-collection standpoint, I can only muster nine different backs across all Washington players. Fortunately, my Washington collection includes Clark Griffith, who can cover five of them:

Nice group of Griffs. What struck me about his photo is that it is ten years old by the time m101-4 was issued, as was McGraw's in a similar New York N.L. dark uni (probably both taken by Burke). Mendelsohn was so intent on getting "Action" photos that he must have thought dugout shots were to be shunned whenever possible. Of course, at least one was unavoidable:

[oldjudge]

These are the two Wares varieties. Not the line above Wares.

[boneheadandrube]

Boy, that's really subtle! Is the font thicker or just squished down a bit?

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by boneheadandrube

Boy, that's really subtle! Is the font thicker or just squished down a bit?

Looking at the examples it appears the best way to tell the difference is the length of the line above the 'Ware's'. It is either about the same length as the Ware's line, or it extends a little past on both sides.

Brian

[oldjudge]

There are actually several differences, but as Brian points out the length of the line above Wares is the most obvious. The scarcer version (bottom) also has no comma after street, and less space between the E and S in WARES, etc.

[boneheadandrube]

I see now, I thought the top was the new one before being informed about the line length.

[boneheadandrube]

It appears I do have some of the minutiae from the set...a reversed back! From Reading Todd's article on these it appears these are common on low numbered F&B backs? Is this accurate Todd?

Minutiae.jpg

[nolemmings]

Originally Posted by boneheadandrube

It appears I do have some of the minutiae from the set...a reversed back! From Reading Todd's article on these it appears these are common on low numbered F&B backs? Is this accurate Todd?

Attachment 624592

Yes, it is common with Famous and Barr. More precisely, F&B low numbers 1-20 are nearly always found with the ad reading top to bottom like your Crawford. Numbers 21-33 I have only confirmed as reading the other way. Numbers 34-50 have some reading one way, some the other, and some reading either way (including Crawford). After that it's all bottom to top.

[scooter729]

Herpolsheimers have the same issue with some of the backs reversed. I forget the numbering system of how their backs are reversed, but I believe it may be numbered in the same way as the F&B backs have some backs in the opposite direction.

[nolemmings]

Originally Posted by scooter729

Herpolsheimers have the same issue with some of the backs reversed. I forget the numbering system of how their backs are reversed, but I believe it may be numbered in the same way as the F&B backs have some backs in the opposite direction.

You are correct sir. Herpolsheimer #s 1-20 all read top to bottom with the rest going the other direction. Notably, these low numbers all correspond to m101-5, unlike the remainder.
Block & Kuhl low #s 1-20 also align like the Herpolsheimers, with the low numbers matching m101-5 and the rest m101-4, but the ads of the low number B&Ks can run either way.
Confused yet?

[ValKehl]

I'm enjoying this informative thread with lots of eye candy. Shown below is an example for each of the ad backs I have. I don't have a Mall Theatre or most of the back-printing variations. I'm always looking for WaJo with any of the backs I don't have of him (I have a few not shown below). Sorry, but I lack the PC skill to display these in a compact form, as the OP and some others have done. Because of this, it's taken two posts to show them all.

[Casey2296]

Fantastic Peckinpaugh Val.

[ValKehl]

Thanks, Phil. Here's a continuation of my prior post:

[boneheadandrube]

Here you go Val

Val-1a.jpg
Val-1.jpg
Val-2.jpg
Val-3.jpg
Val-4.jpg

[oldjudge]

Great stuff, Val. Mall Theatre, the two straight letter Gimbels variations, the Everybody's variation only available on Baker and the new Wares variation are all really really scarce.

[brianp-beme]

Great collection Val, and impressive display adjustment of it Greg.

Brian

[ValKehl]

Greg, many thanks for making such an attractive display of my M101 cards - very much appreciated! And, thanks to others for their kind words.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Leon--That was a fantastic group. Since you put that together a second Wares back has been found. I'll post an image of both later so people can see the difference.

Just what I would have needed, another hole to fill. Glad I am not so earnest about ALL of them anymore. I am very liesurely this time out. (and thanks to everyone showing their backs!)
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[boneheadandrube]

Leon, do you have any background on where that Holmes came from? I think I remember that most (90%+) of the Holmes to Homes backs are known from a salesman sample/scrapbook "find" that left them with varying degrees of back damage, and some with front damage from being torn out of the pages. There are a handful in this thread that seem free of the glue/rip damage. Are these cards that were found separately? I'll bet some people haven't heard about this, so it might be good to bring it up again. What do you recall about these backs?