Do Ebay stores make money selling overpriced cards?

[pscolgrafs]

A complimentary thread to the demise of Ebay and something I don't we have talked about before here.

You see so many people on here complaining about eBay store prices and I whole heartedly agree.

I saw one T206 (Cicotte) in the B/S/T for $110 a while back and there were four examples on eBay in the same grade offered for between $200-250.

Do these stores...make money? They must, or they wouldn't exist, right?

[JP]

I think the majority of these "stores" don't NEED to sell anything....they are willing to let their inventory sit there until some ignoramus makes a purchase at an insane price, or they hope that someone who needs a card to complete a set will buy out of frustration. I know that there is a PSA 5 T-206 Bender portrait that I've seen in an eBay store AT LEAST for a year, and it represents about a 50% premium to the highest the card has ever sold. But if or when it does sell, it will more than cover any store expenses the seller incurred. The rest of these stores are just people showing off.....

[quinnsryche]

I have had great luck making offers on ebay store inventory. At one time I offered $100 for a card listed at $250 and the seller accepted it. I have no problem contacting a seller with a card for sale and making an offer I am comfortable with even if he does not offer the "make an offer" option. I have also had success in offering cards for trade to sellers. My experience is they would love to get the asking price but in many instances can be very receptive to reasonable offers.

[M's_Fan]

I think that most of these "buy it now" listings are collectors that really don't want to sell their cards, but would be convinced to sell at a really high price only.

Back in the days of card shops, dealers actually had to move inventory to pay expenses like rent, utilities, salaries, etc. Nowadays it costs virtually nothing to list a card for sale on eBay, which causes a huge amount of clutter.

The best way collectors can deal with this is clicking on the "auctions only" tab. Save your searches with this tab clicked and you won't have to click it every time.

[ksabet]

Originally Posted by quinnsryche

I have had great luck making offers on ebay store inventory. At one time I offered $100 for a card listed at $250 and the seller accepted it. I have no problem contacting a seller with a card for sale and making an offer I am comfortable with even if he does not offer the "make an offer" option. I have also had success in offering cards for trade to sellers. My experience is they would love to get the asking price but in many instances can be very receptive to reasonable offers.

Except be careful with seller "yepbg" he doesn't like when you do this and will ban you from bidding as well as berate and ridicule you. I mean when a card has averaged $430 over its last ten sales, his $1200 asking price is perfectly reasonable right?

[quinnsryche]

Originally Posted by ksabet

Except be careful with seller "yepbg" he doesn't like when you do this and will ban you from bidding as well as berate and ridicule you. I mean when a card has averaged $430 over its last ten sales, his $1200 asking price is perfectly reasonable right?

I've seen his stuff and never even stopped. The asking price can't be THAT ridiculous when asking about a deal. He's one of the ones I don't even bother with.

[HRBAKER]

Originally Posted by ksabet

Except be careful with seller "yepbg" he doesn't like when you do this and will ban you from bidding as well as berate and ridicule you. I mean when a card has averaged $430 over its last ten sales, his $1200 asking price is perfectly reasonable right?

Is that a real seller? I thought it was a beta test seeking deranged compulsive buyers.

[calvindog]

Yeah, he's actually the worst, his prices make Levi blush. Smart guy. He should give the underwear gnomes in South Park some business advice.

Phase 1: Collect Underpants
Phase 2: ?
Phase 3: Profit

[T206Collector]

"I think that most of these "buy it now" listings are collectors that really don't want to sell their cards, but would be convinced to sell at a really high price only."

While I have certainly seen that, most of the time the sellers are more than happy to take less than asking and sell offline without having to incur ebay fees.

I take high BINs with a grain of salt, as just the "starting" asking price.

[JasonL]

their wares for the cost of the listing price, and will gladly sell offline for a fraction of the list...not sure why they bother with such outrageous BINs, though....the unreasonable ones, well...hard to say what is wrong with them.

[nebboy]

(((I think that most of these "buy it now" listings are collectors that really don't want to sell their cards, but would be convinced to sell at a really high price only.)))

http://cgi.ebay.com/1926-Sports-Co-o...item518e56dd29

This is a great example of a High BIN but the 1926 Sports Co of America CHAMPIONS Uncut Proof Sheet++ is a really nice item and has great papers, and story to go along with it.
Worth a look!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[drc]

I don't see how having people question your sanity is good for sales. "Are you mentally deranged?" and "On what planet were you born?" are not things you want to hear from potential customers as they browse your sales listings.

[Bridwell]

Those super high buy-it-nows remind me why I stopped going to card shows. The last few shows I've attended in Texas had very few pre-war cards, and the prices were sky high. For example, common VG T206's for $200??? I can't imagine offering someone $30 for something marked $200.

But on Ebay, I've offered 50% of the BIN and bought a few items. I guess I'm willing to toss in an offer and get shot down sometimes, since it's not face-to-face.

[3and2]

It would be interesting for someone to watch approximately 25 items in "My eBay" from a person's eBay store and see how many items they sell at a high "buy it now" price over a 30 day period and get back w/ us w/ their findings.

-Anthony

[wrapperguy]

I need only one card to finish the R303B set in sepia, that of Jimmie Foxx. There has been one as a BIN of $499 for over a year but I cannot afford one that high. Sent the guy an email seeing if he was willing to negotiate, and he responded with a flat "not interested in lowering the price at this time". There has to be one that will come along at a reasonable price sooner or later.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by 3and2

It would be interesting for someone to watch approximately 25 items in "My eBay" from a person's eBay store and see how many items they sell at a high "buy it now" price over a 30 day period and get back w/ us w/ their findings.

-Anthony

No need for that, just do an advanced search under search by seller and check the box to show completed items only you'll only get 15 days worth, but you get all the details

Yepbg had 97 items finish in the last two weeks, and sold
1964 standups norm siebern psa 7 $50
1964 standups Ed Charles psa7.5 $50
M116 Bradley psa 6mk $60
59 topps#212 PSA 6 $65
55 Topps Zimmer rookie psa 8mc $75
52 Parkhurst Gilliam psa 3.5 $75
55 Topps Zimmer psa 6 $100
71 Ryan psa 6 $110
64 standups Davis psa 7 $125
54 Dan Dee Wynn psa 6 $195
W-516 Hornsby psa 2 $300
48 Leaf Musial psa 5 $750
W522 Ruth psa A $1000
W516-2-1 Ruth psa A $1200

So about 14% sold, for a total of $4155. Ebay takes roughly 9% plus the Paypal fees, store subscription, and store listing fees. Fixed price are now .50 each, so figure around $500 in fees and at least $8 for half the monthly store fee. Not bad for 2 weeks worth of little or no effort.

Steve B

[BobbyVCP]

I see people all the time pull the trigger and buy one of these very overpriced cards daily. They are people that either don't care or have no clue. So until these people wise up and stop buying them then they will continue to be there.

[Peter_Spaeth]

When you have 10,000 plus cards, as some ebay sellers do, it doesn't take too many price inelastic, or impatient, or misinformed, buyers to generate a little cash flow. I suppose one can question the ethics of a business model premised on taking advantage of people (and I suppose one could question whether that is a fair description), but it obviously works.

[HRBAKER]

Peter one could argue that no seller has an obligation to protect a buyer from himself.

[sportscardtheory]

I don't understand why people are so scared of over-priced BINs. Make an offer of what you will pay. I regularly make offers for half of some BINs and have them accepted. Just because the BIN may be ludicrous, doesn't mean that seller won't accept a fair offer.

[T206DK]

The main problem I see is that even if you do make offers it os often not considered "reasonable" for the seller. A seller had a card that was probabaly worth $250-$300 listed for 1500. I asked him what he would reasonably expect to get for this card in that bad of condition. his reply was $900-$1000. Absolutely ridiculous he will be buried with that card , along with most of his other overpriced cards

[BCauley]

I asked a guy about a CJ card a few months back. It obviously wasn't that important since I don't remember it.

Anyway, he had it listed at a BIN of $750 and the BO option was available. I did my research through VCP and some price guide. Anyway, the sales had been between $300 and $400 and there was about five of those, all within the year. I offered $450 with an explanation as to how I came to the price. He countered with $700 and said he wouldn't go below that.

I thanked him for placing his cards into the ebay museum and he then informed me that he doesn't have to sell the card and he'll have it listed for the next 10 years at that price if need be as someone would eventually come along and buy it.

What a great sales model. He had some nice cards too and I probably would have been a repeat customer. Not that I buy a whole heck of a lot but repeat customers also bring in other customers.

Oh well, it's only cardboard. Back to work on dumping off my modern to purchase a decent Johnson portrait.

[jbbama]

All i know is i did a search yesterday and had 5500 items found, then i did auctions only and had a grant total of 384 items found....................outrageous doesn't begin to describe this scenario. Ebay museum is very accurate.

[Mrc32]

That is why I am eager to see Grandslambids get going. I am not of the school that thinks eBay is the only place that can do baseball cards. If the user base here starts loading the cards they want to sell on the new site, then i think it can thrive. If the cards are there, the people will come....

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Mrc32

That is why I am eager to see Grandslambids get going. I am not of the school that thinks eBay is the only place that can do baseball cards. If the user base here starts loading the cards they want to sell on the new site, then i think it can thrive. If the cards are there, the people will come....

I guess a very quick update on Grandslambids is warranted. I know we were supposed to have the beta going this last week (we did the alpha test a few months ago with very good results). The s/w piece(s) that are being worked on are taking a bit longer than we "re-anticipated" . I can only say that from what I am being told it really is right around the corner. There is a bit of frustration with the delays but it's not really that unusual, given the nature and breadth of what we are trying to accomplish. Getting all of the pieces working together, especially with some very sophisiticated options we have, and it's not hard to imagine it taking some time. When it's done we hope it can be another venue to self service auction your cards.

[4815162342]

http://cgi.ebay.com/1909-11-T206-ED-...item1c0d9c2492

[buymycards]

Daryl, look at this one from the same seller.

Rick

http://cgi.ebay.com/1909-11-T206-RAY...c#ht_500wt_975

[4815162342]

Wow, that's the rare New York version.

[ksabet]

If you look at that sellers sold stuff his highest sale was $100 and everything is shiny. I think its funny how people can attempt to sell items when they don't even know what they have.

[JP]

Oh, he knows exactly what he has. I wrote him and told him that that Demmitt is not rare, and maybe worth $30-40. And he said he knew that, that he just put that price to attract sales. And I asked him what he would do if someone bought it mistakenly thinking it was the RARE St. Louis one. He replied that he would go through with the sale, because if someone is dumb enough to make a mistake like that, it is their fault....classy guy!

[calvindog]

Thought this was funny as I was thumbing through some of the new items listed in the pre-1930s section and noticed a few Cobb cards being sold by yepbg for 5-7x more than they've sold for in the past year:

He had 2435 items end in the last 15 days, and sold a total of 12 of them. Lucky for us, the unsold ones are back on ebay....

[JP]

You think even 6 of those 12 were real transactions? I wonder about these sellers with hundreds of items for sale at ridiculous prices. If none of their items "sold", their lack of recent feedback would start to cause people to be wary of buying...

[Peter_Spaeth]

This is interesting. The seller referred to previously has a PSA 2 Home Run Derby Ernie Banks with a BIN of 750.

http://cgi.ebay.com/1959-Home-Run-De...item483a4d6959

Another seller has a PSA 4 of the same card with an opening bid of 250 and a BIN of 325.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Ernie-Banks-1959...item414ee05b63

[JP]

I wonder which one "sells" first. You can also find 4,000 such examples looking at Levi's buy it nows. It must be worth the time to list them, though, as this fad has yet to die down.

[calvindog]

Peter, that's a tough call. I think I'd go with the PSA 2. After all, think of what a thrill it would be to buy one from him. There is some added value to that, don't you think?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Jeff, I am at a loss to understand the business model; I mean I could understand it if a seller genuinely was open to reasonable offers and just preferred to avoid ebay and possibly paypal fees; but that does not seem to be the case based on what has been reported.

[ScottFandango]

Originally Posted by JP

I wonder which one "sells" first. You can also find 4,000 such examples looking at Levi's buy it nows. It must be worth the time to list them, though, as this fad has yet to die down.

this FAD started when Microsoft CASH back and programs like BING Discounts were enacted...

i remember getting 30% off of any BIN, an this turned into some great deals..

then the sellers caught on (caught up) and RAISED the BINS to accomodate the discount the buyers were getting....

now that these promotions are down (or maybe 8%), the sellers havent reduced their prices, they have kept them at the 30% markup level....

and EBay low listing fee is PROMOTING this behavior....

used to cost more to list it high, NOT ANY MORE

[Edwolf1963]

This was a great question/blog - I've often wondered the same thing about these eBay "stores" and who would buy anything from them when they are easily 2x or more over reasonable fair market value. I hadn't seen yepbg's stuff until recently - the ones that always stood out to me (aside from the obvious in Levi/707) is Higbee's and the examples shown earlier from bighitsportscards2008 (as in you take the "big hit" if you buy anything from them)

What gets to me more about the eBay model is that whenever I do make an offer to someone in Stores, I'm usually countered with an "off eBay" response - yet eBay gives many these sellers their "Top Seller" certificate/stamp of approval!

[glchen]

I just wanted to defend Higbee's since I have purchased a few items from them, namely basketball card sets. The thing is that there is a premium on eBay when you buy from a seller that has Top Seller or similarly high # of sales as opposed to a seller who has less than 100 rating. The same card may be available from each, but the one from the established seller will have a better price because the buy trusts them more. For example from Higbee's, I purchased a 77-78 basketball set from them, and when I received the set, a few of the cards (including the Alcindor) had dented corners. That was an extreme annoyance since the set is advertised as NM-MT. Of course, I realize when you buy sets like this, you're not going to get GEM 10's, but I'm expecting at least 6-7. So I wrote Higbee's and told them I was going to give them a neutral rating b/c it wasn't worth the cost to ship the set back to them since it didn't cost them much. However, Mike Higbee wrote me back and said that he wanted to make it up, and asked that I still send the dented cards back to him, and he would replace them with nicer cards. I did that, and he sent the nicer cards back immediately. I actually told him to wait on sending the cards since I could order something else, and he could send everything back at the same time. However, he didn't wait on me, but sent them back the same day the got the new cards. I actually did order another set from him (a recent baseball set for ~18 BIN), and unfortunately, he couldn't locate that one in stock. So, he refunded me the money, and still sent me a bonus set (something like a small basketball card set) for free. Granted that bonus was probably something he was having trouble moving anyway, but still it cost him money to ship it, and he didn't have to do it, so I'm still a grateful customer and would buy more items from him. I realize that some of his stuff is expensive, but some of it isn't, so any buyer just needs to compare the prices of what some of these guys have in stock. I know that not every high volume seller is like this, and that is terrible behavior from that guy selling that Demmit card.

This is opposed to a new seller, from whom I purchased a Magic Johnson/Larry Bird RC from. I bought the card over two weeks ago, and still have not received anything. I emailed him about this and he sent me a tracking number. That tracking number is still saying USPS shipping invoice received electronically, but this does not mean that the item has been received by the post office. I got the tracking number a week ago and the card was supposed to be shipped via Priority Mail. I messaged the guy again over the weekend and nothing. Now I probably have to open a case with eBay, and the seller will probably say he has a tracking number, and I have to prove to ebay that he hasn't actually shipped the item. What a huge, freaking pain. The seller actually has a 100% positive rating with about 100 reviews, but only around 10 sales are in the last 6 months. I should have looked closer, and already am regretting this purchase tremendously.

One other thing to add is that I am probably going to open an eBay store myself. (as mentioned in another thread, this is a way to convince my wife that my hobby can have financial dividends.) I still working on building inventory, but I'm planning on doing BIN's myself (probably), and then selling the cards for ~25% over what I purchased it for. And since I purchased these cards recently, these will probably be higher than the average price for the cards, but I'm hoping that convenience of finding of these cards on ebay and that there won't be question of authenticity (since I'll only be selling graded cards) will help me get some sales. Of course, I might also be one of the fastest eBay stores to go out of business.

[tinkereversandme]

I think by adding 25% to your bottom line, I'm hoping that's on top of the fees as you will go out of business soon.

I do enjoy this thread topic as well as it is sad to see, what appears to be, the end of the eBay auctions. Take into consideration the following:

I did a search on 1959 Topps Frank Robinson. There were 6 up for auction and 101 in Buy It Now/Stores.

I did a seach on Warren Spahn Autographs. There were 28 up for auction and 435 in Buy It Now/Stores. For a signed 8x10, they vary from $18 to $199, with most selling in the high $50 price range.

Let's take a look at the future. This time next year, there may be 650 in Buy It Now/Stores and 10 in auctions. So if you want a Warren Spahn autograph, you will have 650 to choose from, all varying in prices with of course, the 10 auctioned items selling for considerably less.

I don't know how eBay stores do it either. They are annoying to sort through (thankfully they have the tab) and I have never found anything at the correct price to make it worth my while.

Larry

[glchen]

Yea, that 25% would be on top of my costs (purchase of the card + any fees to grade the card if I purchased it raw). It wouldn't include any ebay or paypal fees, which seems from what I read will be ~10% of the item. Therefore, I would theoretically make 15% profit on a card. However, this would only be on cards that I would be able to sell. If I purchased a card at too high a price or if the raws I purchased were fake or of lesser grade that I thought I purchased for, then I would lose money on those cards. So overall, I'd probably wouldn't be making much, and there'd be a pretty good chance for substantial losses since I'm probably already listing the cards at a higher than average price. As you can see, my business skills seem pretty lacking. However, I want to get a feel for what sells first and may adjust things later. Or just go out of business.

[ksabet]

But at 25% premium you may end up another museum on Ebay.

I don't think you need to pay a premium for good service. Chris Rock used to make fun of dad's that said "I take care of my kids". He said "you dumb $&@^$*#&$ you're supposed to take care of your kids"

Being a good business should be the norm and the precedent, we shouldn't have to pay a premium for something you already should be doing.

The problem is for some reason in cards people either 1) are willing to overpay or 2) don't understand fair market value. VCP is a great tool as you can visualize what cards are selling for based on the market and not sellers out to gauge you.

Once again good luck!

[danc]

glchen, very funny. I purchased a signed check from an NHL HOF'er last year, that I valued at around $20-25. I was the only bidder at $9.99. I sold it six months later, auction-style on eBay for $23. Not bad. I checked eBay stores and there were five of them at $129, $149, $169, $179 and $199. They have been there ever since, with the $129 selling his with a best offer price of $60. Is that a victory? I think everyone at some point realizes that eBay wants us all to go this route and eventually eBay will get it's way and more people (including myself) with find themselves opening up stores.

DanC