Oops! I guess it's not that rare after all

[Rob D.]

The nature of this question might exclude those who weren't collecting in the pre-Internet/pre-eBay days, so apologies in advance.

During a phone conversation this week with a board member, the subject of perceived scarcity came up -- and more specifically items on which we'd been so very wrong. I know as a Cleveland Indians collector, the Internet in general and eBay specifically has educated me about pieces of memorabilia that I thought were scarce and possibly rare when in reality they're pretty common.

At the top of my list is the Stanford Pottery Chief Wahoo bank. In 1990 I finally was able to add one of these to my collection, and words cannot express how happy I was. At the time I was living in northeast Ohio, about 30 miles from where the Stanford Pottery factory was located. So one would think that I would have known how many of these statues were out there. But I wasn't the only one who was ignorant. Indians collectors who had 20 years experience on me at the time also were of the opinion that these were really, really tough. It wasn't uncommon to expect to pay at a minimum $300 for one -- if you could find one.

Then, after eBay became popular, the realization hit that Stanford Pottery Chief Wahoos aren't all that scarce. At any time on eBay you can probably find 4-5 available, and even though they're still offered for $200-$300, I doubt many sellers are getting near that price.

So my question to you is: What piece of memorabilia in your area of expertise proved to be not as rare as previously thought?

[Chris Counts]

The Dormand postcard of Gil Hodges is a good example. Evidentally a horde was found in recent years. I used to see it listed as a short print, but now you can buy them in bulk ...

[JimH5]

I bought a 1971 cancelled bank check from the Milwaukee Brewers account, signed by Bud Selig for $125 from a friend/dealer. I thought I got pretty good deal.

Then about 6 months later, I saw and bought a lot of about 30 Selig Brewers checks from 1970 at a Mears auction for around the same price.

Dollar cost averaging. . .

[Baseball Rarities]

Rob,

It is not a piece of memorabilia, but a card for me. I was putting together my E90-1 American Caramel set in the 1980's. Most of the cards were not that expensive at the time except for the Mitchell. Anyways, I completed the set and upgraded most cards (including Mitchell) 2 or 3 times before I ever saw a Jackson. Remember, the Jackson was worth less than many of the rare cards at the time (Graham, Stahl, Sweeney, Duffy, Walsh, etc.) - it may have booked for $100 or maybe even less. But, for the life of me, I could never find one for my set.

At one of the late 1980's Nationals, Chris Benjamin (of non-sport fame) had a nice one on his table. He was always expensive on his baseball cards and this was not an exception. I ended up buying the card at a crazy price. I swear that a half a dozen of them popped up in the following six months. None as nice as the one I had, but literally at 20% of the price that I paid.

Today, I still have a soft spot for that card, but it is certainly not as difficult as I once thought it was, at least in low to mid grade.

[scgaynor]

I just sold a mint Chief Wahoo on ebay last week for $202.50, so they are right about $200.

Scott

[perezfan]

It's a great topic for a thread, and when I have time, I'll contribute more to this (there are so many pieces that fit the "not so rare anymore" category).

But the first one that comes to mind are those plasic cone-shaped Banks with the Team Bats that snap in. These were considered tough, and sold for over $100 before the days of ebay. Some still do, but only the much older rare ones (or the ones with wood bats) now command that price. The others tend to sell for under $40 - even on a good day. I bet there are half a dozen on ebay right now...

[parker1b2]

One thing that I always looked for at shows in my younger days of collecting were Dairy Queen Statues. Rarely ever saw any. But now there are always a handful on Ebay.
Also, Hartland Statues were available at shows but were very expensive, now since there are alot on Ebay the price has seem to come down a bit.

[Leon]

Very frequently I think of this same question, concerning rarity, about cards. With the advent of ebay, and the amount that come to market over time, many things we once thought were rare, aren't so rare anymore. As for memorabilia I have to think a Ruth signed ball is anything but rare. Fortunately for folks that collect them, the demand side is huge. Good question.

[WWGjohn]

Back in the early 90's I was finishing my 54 Topps set and needed only the Aaron rookie. A dealer that I did a lot of business with found a raw one for me in GD-VG condition for $300. At the time card prices were really taking off and the Aaron was already at $1500 and steadily climbing. Today the card I have, in its condition, might bring $150 graded.

John

[drc]

Rule of thumb is if you own a one-of-a-kind item, there's probably another one (or three) out there.

Of course, three is still rare.

[TheSquire]

Originally Posted by perezfan

It's a great topic for a thread, and when I have time, I'll contribute more to this (there are so many pieces that fit the "not so rare anymore" category).

But the first one that comes to mind are those plasic cone-shaped Banks with the Team Bats that snap in. These were considered tough, and sold for over $100 before the days of ebay. Some still do, but only the much older rare ones (or the ones with wood bats) now comand that price. The others tend to sell for under $40 - even on a good day. I bet there are half a dozen on ebay right now...

The plastic banks with the wood bats displaying players names are still somewhat rare, especially in good condition.

[TheSquire]

I am avid collector of mini bat fountain pens and pencils. The White Flash Gas versions are not super rare, but it's still very hard to find them, especially in a set with the original box. Single's will pop up on Ebay from time to time, but since a lot of them were used to actually write with, versions in great condition are indeed rare. I have a Babe Ruth set that I've never seen elsewhere. This is not the Quaker Oats set.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by TheSquire

The plastic banks with the wood bats displaying players names are still somewhat rare, especially in good condition.

Yes- the Wood Bat versions still go for $150 - $200 (and are rare). But the plastic ones from the '60s can now be had routinely for $20 - $30. I got one for $8 recently, in perfect MINT condition. In the old "pre-ebay days" you would not see these go for under $100.

The Hartland example was another good one. The Dallas Ty Cobbs used to go for $1,000 - $1,200, and now sell for about $550. The Dallas Bob Feller has gone from a $2,000 piece to a $1,200 piece.

The Original Hartlands now sell for about 30% less than pre-Internet/ebay. Groat and Colavito (once thought to be near-impossible) are now on ebay almost every week. The Boxes (and other rarities) still command a high price, but the Statues are much more prevalent than originally thought.

And what about those "500 Home Run Club" signed lithos? Those were a real prize back in the '90s... now they're everywhere (some are even authentic!)

[mjkm90]

One inch web gloves of any variety were super tough to find pre-ebay. They could be purchased, but were difficult to find. The price of these and 1940s fatties have really plummeted (with the exception of rare models or top condition pieces).

Frankly, just about anything pre 1950 seemed uber rare before ebay.

[TheSquire]

Collect what you like and you'll be happy. If you're collecting things you think are rare and that's your main motivation, you'll be disappointed 99% of the time.

[Rob D.]

Originally Posted by TheSquire

Collect what you like and you'll be happy. If you're collecting things you think are rare and that's your main motivation, you'll be disappointed 99% of the time.

Thanks.

[ksfarmboy]

I collected Spalding Autograph model bats. Before ebay locating any of the examples was a challenge. Ebay came and changed the game. At one time the Frank Chance Gold Medal was almost impossible to find. I tracked them and at the end of my collecting them I was up to 16 examples. There were other bats that are like this too. I still look on ebay for them I just don't buy them anymore. Funny thing is, they have become difficult to find again. They sure don't show up as often.

[TheSquire]

Originally Posted by Rob D.

Thanks.

drop dead

[mjkm90]

Originally Posted by TheSquire

Collect what you like and you'll be happy. If you're collecting things you think are rare and that's your main motivation, you'll be disappointed 99% of the time.

My problem is that I like things that are rare. I have most of the common things I'm interested in and the thrill of the hunt associated with scarce yet cool pieces is terrific. Now...there are rare pieces I have zero interest in, but rare pieces related to my areas of interest are a real driver for me.

[Rob D.]

Originally Posted by drc

Rule of thumb is if you own a one-of-a-kind item, there's probably another one (or three) out there.

Of course, three is still rare.

In 1991, a friend and I were always hitting flea markets and antiques shops in northeast Ohio in search of baseball memorabilia in general and Cleveland Indians items specifically. One day he called me to say he found at a thrift shop a "bunch" of Cleveland Indians cigarette cases, and that the owner said he had a few unopened cases somewhere.

Neither of us had ever seen these before, so we were pretty excited. We bought all he had and continued to buy his unopened cases as he found them. It soon became apparent to us that our find of what we thought were rare items were in fact pretty common, even though they'd never been on the market before my friend found them.

I see these offered all the time, and it's pretty neat to know that most all of them came from my friend's original discovery.

[TheSquire]

Originally Posted by mjkm90

My problem is that I like things that are rare. I have most of the common things I'm interested in and the thrill of the hunt associated with scarce yet cool pieces is terrific. Now...there are rare pieces I have zero interest in, but rare pieces related to my areas of interest are real driver.

I could not agree with you more.

[Bilko G]

Originally Posted by Leon

As for memorabilia I have to think a Ruth signed ball is anything but rare.

[D. Bergin]

LOL! Great photo. There's a similar one of Muhammad Ali sitting in front of and signing a dump trucks load of boxing gloves.

Like Ruth during his time, one of the most common authentic signatures, is also one of the most forged because of the demand associated with it.

[TheSquire]

Originally Posted by Bilko G

I'd still love to have one. And one of those boxes as well...

[Leon]

Infraction and option given to The Squire for:

edited- Not sure if a PM was sent but suffice it to say, TheSquire needs to edit his comment or put his name in his posts.

[ValKehl]

I was a kid, so I now collect most anything related to him. Back 15-20 years ago, before auctions and the internet became big, I came came across this batting average calculator, which I had never seen before, at a local, DC-area card show. I assumed it was rare (probably helped with this assumption by the dealer), and I had to have it. Well, over the ensuing years, I have seen this item several times, and they now sell for a fraction of what I paid for mine! They are probably common as heck down Texas way!
Val

[fkw]

Cards...

20 years ago the 1933 Sanella Babe Ruth card used to sell for $1500+
Now your lucky to get 1/15th of that.....

Another example of a very common card some think is rare is the 1921 Schapira Candy Babe Ruth "Portrait" card. in last 12 years on eBay Ive seen maybe 4-5 groups of 20+ cards sold on eBay. The story behind it is the portrait card was on every box and you need to save 250 of the "portrait" cards to send into the company to get the Ruth signed ball.... well many kids came up short of the 250 needed and hoards of 20-50 cards are not uncommon when discovered. Ive owned maybe 15-20 of them over the years but havent bought one in 5 years now because the price is too high compared to what I paid for then in eBays early days ($15-$50 ea.)

PS The Dormand PC of Hodges.... There was a single lot of 500+ Hodges that was auction a few years back in a major auction... I always knew the day that lot showed that the value of that card would dive bigtime

[Hankphenom]

The Runnels calculator IS rare, Val, there just doesn't seem to be much demand for it. I've seen maybe six or seven of them in 30 years of collecting and dealing in Senators stuff. I'd call that rare. Can I get more than 25 bucks for it now? No, but that's true of a lot of Senators stuff for which the demand seems to have fallen off a cliff. If there were a bunch of them in Texas or anywhere else you'd see them on eBay all the time. Items like this bring to mind the time years ago when I showed Jimmy Spence a letter on White House stationary addressed to Clark Griffith and signed by a White House functionary. It had to do with opening day, and I thought it was pretty cool. I asked Jimmy what he thought it might be worth. Jimmy sighed, handed it back to me, and said: "I'd put this in the category of 'rare and undesirable'." As a dealer, I've learned the hard way just how many items fall into that category. The Runnels Batting Calculator is still a really cool piece, whatever it's market value.
Hank Thomas

[GasHouseGang]

With the advent of ebay nearly any item can be purchased at some time during the year. You used to have to go to a show to see most of these items and auction catalogs weren't as prevalent either. It's been great for the consumer, but has driven down the value of a lot of collectibles. I think what I am slowly realizing on most of the card issues, is that the cards are available, but condition is the true rarity. It makes building a lower grade collection much more affordable than it used to be.

[ValKehl]

Hi Hank,
Thanks for your kind words about the Runnels Batting Calculator. I agree that it "is still a really cool piece, whatever it's market value." In fact, a few years ago, I bought a second one, at a small fraction of what I paid for the first one; stock-market gurus refer to this as dollar-cost-averaging! So, I'm all set for the day when the price of these sky-rockets once again! Ha! Ha! BTW, I believe the Runnels pose on this piece is the same as on his Briggs Hot Dogs card.

Hope all is well with you - see you at the Chantilly Show next week.
Best
Val

[scmavl]

I'm still not sure why pulling this out of a pack didn't pay for my college...

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by scmavl

I'm still not sure why pulling this out of a pack didn't pay for my college...

Jarrod,
Now THAT'S funny!! I believe that every person that opened packs of '89 Upper deck and chased the '90 Leaf Frank Thomas and David Justice RC's has thought the same thing....