Question about T206 back pricing

[cwazzy]

Hi guys. I just started collecting T206 cards a couple of weeks ago. I figured I'd start the set by building a St. Louis Cardinals team set in VG to VG-Ex (and a reprint of the O'Hara until the check for my Nigerian lottery winnings come in ). I would like to get a nice representation of the different back brands available and here is where my question comes into play. Can I get an estimate of what some of the less common back types will run in the VG grade? I don't really care about varieties within the different brands just an example or two of each. I hope this makes sense.

I'm sorry if this is an annoying question to the T206 experts of the forum but any help is appreciated. Thanks!

Chris

[cwazzy]

And in case anyone wants to see it this is all I've managed to aquire so far:

[teetwoohsix]

I am not a T206 expert by far,just a T-206 fiend.There are T206 experts on this board who can answer your question alot better than I can.But what I wanted to say is that it is difficult to give an estimate of a card just based on the back-so I guess you should wonder what an estimate would be with a certain player with a certain back,in vg3 grade.For instance-what would a Roger Bresnahan with a Tolstoi back go for(estimate) as opposed to a Bresnahan with a Piedmont back go for(estimate).Maybe this will help-by the way,thats a nice card you got-good luck on your goal-Sincerely,Clayton

[steve B]

I'm hardly an expert, but I did try the same thing with the backs for a few years. One of each brand, ignoring series etc. Fortunately I started a long time ago. Most of them are pretty easy and aren't much more expensive than the usual Sweet caporal or Piedmont. I'm still missing 2 or 3 (Is the Ty Cobb back still considered part of T206?) Drum and Uzit are really tough and pretty expensive. I've seen a couple drum backs, and couldn't afford them, even in really rough condition. Uzits are almost as tough, I actually have seen fewer, but I used to have Drum backs as a favorite search on Ebay and only looked for Uzits once in a while.

The card you've got is a nice start. My first T206 was a Beckley in very poor condition. Torn almost all the way through, and taped together. Of course it was only 20 cents, Which should give you a hint how long ago that was.

[jrog007]

One site that I frequently use as a reference when checking back pricing is t206.org. It has a valuation feature that combines fronts, backs, and condition. This, like most any publication, is just a guide so use it accordingly. Good luck!
Jim

[scottglevy]

Here's my suggestion. For right now ignore the subjects (e.g. 150, 350, 460) and concentrate on the back brands for common players.

You should find the following very easily:
Piedmont
Sweet Cap
Sovereign
Polar Bear
Old Mill

Then move onto the next group ... expect to pay 1.5 to 2x the common price:
- American Beauty
- Cycle
- EPDG
- Tolstoi

If you've gotten this far -- you now have 9 of the 15 regular issued backs. Forget about the 'Ty Cobb' unless you've got 5 digits to spend (it's debatable whether its a T206 anyway).

Ok now for the tougher stuff
Hindu, Carolina Brights and Broadleaf are not too tough yet ... and for a couple hundred bucks a piece you can pick up reasonable examples. even $100 can probably get you a real beater.

Lenox is significantly scarce
Uzit even more so
and Drum the most.

However, if you're willing to accept trimmed cards or true beaters even a Drum will cost you less than $1000.... and Lenox significantly less.

Happy hunting and let me know if you need help along the way !

Regards,
Scott

[ethicsprof]

Welcome aboard.
i'm pleased you're a lover of the Monster.
You already have much good advice here.
Scott's pricing is very helpful. although i would say that the
Broadleaf 460 is a pocketbook killer. The 350 would be the way to go in the beginning.
Remember the Monster wants you to quit.
Don't listen to it.

all the best,
barry

[Jantz]

Hi Chris,

I am not an expert, but I will try to help you with your question. A few years back I tried doing the same thing that you are doing, a team set with as many different backs I could get/afford. My team was Cleveland, you know the team with 3 different Cy Young cards and different Lajoie cards. Need I say more!

Your question is a complex one because there are so many factors involved here such as:

availability
front/back combinations
other player/team specific collectors
bidding wars

So trying to throw out estimates is can be difficult

Here is an example for you, last night on Ebay I was going to bid on a T206 of Al Burch (batting). The card was raw and probably would have got a grade of 3/40, but this Burch version always, from my observations, tends to go for a little more than a regular common T206. This Burch also had a Sovereign 150 back. Final closing price was $51. Needless to say that I didn't win this one.

What got me away from doing my Cleveland set was when I saw a Bill Bradley (portrait) with a Hindu (brown) back go for over $300 on Ebay. I knew that I wasn't going to reach my goal.

In no way am I trying to discourage you, but keep in mind, this kind of project is a long-term project . At first the cards will come quick, but sooner or later the brakes will hit. Unless that Nigerian lottery check finally comes in.

I hope that I answered your question and good luck if you continue with this. Also follow the advice in the posts above mine. Their suggestions will help you greatly.


Jantz

[cwazzy]

Thanks for the advice guys. I can already tell you that I'm going to have to skip the really scarce backs like Drum. I just don't have the kind of money that would be required to get the scarce backs. So I guess I'll just try to get 9 or 10 different backs and go from there. No matter what I'm excited about this set. I've got a good display idea for the Cardinal set and as soon as I get it done I'll share it with you guys.

Chris

[ullmandds]

I agree w/Scotts segmenting of the backs into groups. You should be able to accomplish your goal of 9-10 backs in vg for about $500 in my estimation...maybe less if you buy raw...good luck...my original goal in type collecting was to get all of the t206 backs which I began in the early nineties. I had all of the backs up to Drum...minus a uzit. I tried to also get all variations of each back as well. I passed on $2-300 uzit Hofers...BL 460's for $300...I wasn't willing to spend the cash! I got lucky and bought a drum in g for $30 at a show in silver spring, md in 93' or so...along with a few red hindu's for $100 apiece...another for $250 at a card shop in Cleveland, OH while interviewing for dental school...where I got my E97 B/W Nichols as well...great shop! IT's not cheap if you want them all! I've sold many over the years...my drum to buy a chair...all red hindu's but 1...and that's where I stand now. I need Uzit, Drum, Bl 460...for the set...probably will not happen...because I refuse to spend the cash!!!

[B O'Brien]

You may be surprised from time to time on the tough backs. I have had to pay through the nose for a couple of them (thanks Toby), but every now and then you get lucky. I bought my trimmed Willis Drum for a couple hundred dollars last year.

I will take a look and see what kind of STL guys I have.

Good luck,
Bob

[cwazzy]

Thanks, again, for all the help on this guys. And thanks for making a newb feel welcome.

I'd love to see some of your guys' collections if you have links. And if any of you guys have any St. Louis Cardinals with backs that aren't Peidmont or Sweet Caporal available please let me know. Money is pretty tight right now but I would like to buy a card or two every couple of weeks if possible. I'm in the process of trying to sell my modern collection (read: crap) to raise funds for this endeavor but it is proving to be a slow process.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by cwazzy

Thanks, again, for all the help on this guys. And thanks for making a newb feel welcome.

I'd love to see some of your guys' collections if you have links. And if any of you guys have any St. Louis Cardinals with backs that aren't Peidmont or Sweet Caporal available please let me know. Money is pretty tight right now but I would like to buy a card or two every couple of weeks if possible. I'm in the process of trying to sell my modern collection (read: crap) to raise funds for this endeavor but it is proving to be a slow process.

Hey Chris,
If you click on the word "community" in that blue line right above the threads you will see several of our albums. A lot of us have websites and many of us have those listed in our signature lines. Good luck on the T206 back quest. For the difficult ones I am down to needing a Ty Cobb back (still not so sure it's T206 but that is debatable)...and a few of the really tough ones....BL460 was my last really tough one....and I picked up a very nice Drum at the national in 2008....

[Matt]

Letls not forget the Coupon Type 1 backs as well.

[cwazzy]

Originally Posted by Matt

Letls not forget the Coupon Type 1 backs as well.

I was under the impression that Coupon backs were still considered a different set. I've been reading Scot Reader's manuscript and it seems like there is a good argument for both inclusion and exclusion of the Coupon backs. What is the overall opinion of the board in this matter?

[barrysloate]

The board is split on the Coupon issue. Some feel if Burdick catalogued them as a separate set, then that is sacrosanct. Others believe that the type 1 Coupons share so much of the same design with T206 they should be part of the set. There will never be consensus.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by cwazzy

I was under the impression that Coupon backs were still considered a different set.

As best as I can tell, almost everyone agrees that if they were starting a catalogging system today, knowing what we know, we'd group the Coupons with the other T206 backs. I believe the issue comes down to if the ACC can be updated or if it is frozen in time.

[cwazzy]

Originally Posted by Matt

As best as I can tell, almost everyone agrees that if they were starting a catalogging system today, knowing what we know, we'd group the Coupons with the other T206 backs. I believe the issue comes down to if the ACC can be updated or if it is frozen in time.

Does anyone know why they were originally classified as a different set? And how do the prices of these compare to T206? Which back would they most compare to as far as rarity?

I'm open to opinions on this one: if you were me would you consider adding a Coupon back to my set?

Thanks for putting up with my newbie questions guys. You have all been a great help so far!

Chris