It's 1909-1912: Which T/E-card subject are you desperately trying to pull/trade for?

[npa589]

So, in another thread on here - I saw a newspaper article that may be old hat to many of you - but I had never seen it before. I also came across another user on the thread posting this T206 Ad. The image described in the article combined with the ad made me try to picture what it would have been like in the context of the time. History rewrites the value of baseball cards, evidence we've seen proven even from the 90s til now.

Cobb in 1909 was clearly great - hitting .377, but he also was only a couple years into full playing time - and didnt win MVP until 1911. Wagner had of course already cemented himself as a legend and was clearly the best player in the league. In the context of the time though, I'm sure many would have traded Cobb for

But many of the stars of 1909-11 are statistically forgotten about today - even if they were amongst the cards that kids were "besieging" the adult cigarette purchasers to acquire.

Every thread is made more enjoyable with a picture - so please feel encouraged to include examples from your own PC. I think it would be fun for this thread to take on a life of its own too --- hypothetical trading, or simply a post meant to highlight a player who dominated for 5 years, but was largely forgotten about in the history of baseball - save for being immortalized in the T and E sets.

[npa589]

I'll start. It is 1909 and I just pulled a T206 Cobb from some drunks Piedmont pack and I really am thinking Ed Reulbach is going to be the greatest pitcher in baseball history because he is 25 and has already won 97 games. Some stupid kid thinks Cobb is going to continue dominating - so I manage to get a few Reulbachs off of him!

[oldeboo]

Forget Honus Wagner, I would have been feverishly looking for a Babe Adams on many cool and breezy fall days in 1909.

“he established himself as the marvel of the baseball age”
“Adams alone has won for Pittsburgh the baseball championship of the universe”
“never in all the history of the greatest outdoor sport has there been anything to equal the marvelous accomplishment of the “kid” pitcher”
“a pitching prodigy compared to whom all the Matthewsons and the Browns fade into insignificance”

[jp1216]

E90-2

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by oldeboo

Forget Honus Wagner, I would have been feverishly looking for a Babe Adams on many cool and breezy fall days in 1909.

“he established himself as the marvel of the baseball age”
“Adams alone has won for Pittsburgh the baseball championship of the universe”
“never in all the history of the greatest outdoor sport has there been anything to equal the marvelous accomplishment of the “kid” pitcher”
“a pitching prodigy compared to whom all the Matthewsons and the Browns fade into insignificance”

cool things about these threads is you learn about players or their achievements that we might never have learned otherwise.

Never knew he was the first rookie to pitch and win a game 7 in a WS or how great of a control pitcher he was

[oldeboo]

Originally Posted by jp1216

E90-2

That’s a lovely example. Yes, of course I would have never found an Adams T206. Adams was 3-0 in the 1909 WS and that same accomplishment was achieved by Jack Coombs in the 1910 WS, neither made it into T206. Both players would have been in high demand during that time. As crazy as it might seem today, I would suspect that at the time of issue the Adams card would have been the most popular card in the E90-2 set.

A fun clipping below says Wagner was supposedly "peeved" that Babe Adams was essentially stealing the thunder for the 1909 championship.

[Jcfowler6]

This guy wouldn’t let me trade from national league to the American circuit.


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[npa589]

Love the stuff about Babe Adams!

[Casey2296]

If I was a kid in 1910 I'd be at the candy store looking for cards of this guy.
-
Jack Coombs was 27 years old in 1910. He was a spare part for the A’s in his first four seasons, posting a 35-35 record with a 2.45 ERA and a 1.216 WHiP in his 664.1 innings. He was essentially a league average pitcher, with a 105 ERA+ over that time.

But in 1910, Coombs found another gear. Even with Bender and Plank still on the roster, Coombs was the staff ace. He posted what could have arguably been the greatest season in Athletics history, posting a 31-9 record with a 1.30 ERA and a 1.028 WHiP in 353 innings, striking out 224 batters with 115 walks. He led the league in wins and appearances while throwing a league leading 13 shutouts.

Coombs was just as good in the World Series. He started three games, winning and completing each of them. He won Game Two and Game Five against the great Three Finger Brown, and also started Game Three on just one day of rest. If there had been a Cy Young or MVP award back then, Coombs may well have won both awards.
-

[Jason]

Assuming I am still lucky enough to live in Richmond during that time, I am looking for all the local boys. Revelle, Lipe, Messitt etc. T206, T210, T209 and E222. Wait, that's not a change from 2021 at all lol.

[Eric72]

I've heard this guy was fairly popular at the time. Any of these four would have been high up on my want list.

I wouldn't have traded for the pink background, though. In the context of the time period, I'd have considered it a color for girls.

[oldeboo]

During the span of 1909-1912 one of the better pitchers was Nap Rucker.
Here are his numbers looking at WAR for pitchers in the majors:
1909 7.6 #3
1910 6.8 #6
1911 8.5 #4
1912 8.1 #4

Nap would have been a popular player for the boys in Brooklyn, one of the few bright spots on some pretty bad teams. After seven productive years in Brooklyn problems surfaced. It appears his shoulder was wearing out, he had deltoid bursitis, he developed a growth under his arm, had tonsil issues, had an extra bone near his shoulder, and had related conditioning issues. He never got completely back on track.

An extra seven inch bone from below the shoulder to collar bone? Any doctors?

He was one of the better pitchers in the given window of time. The supporting cast around him was far behind Babe Adams and Jack Coombs.

[npa589]

I do love this hypothetical game utilizing contextual facts. I did not know that about Rucker. I also did not know the extent of Coombs temporary dominance.

That T206 Wagner ad also provides some insight as well with regard to the other players that are on display along with Wagner.


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[Exhibitman]

Joe Wood, probably. Definitely Walter Johnson. I was a pitcher, so those were the guys I would've wanted at age 10-11. My problem was that I was terrible at pitching. I was afraid of a come-backer so I'd look great in practice then I'd hitch my throws and lose the plate facing live batters. Probably because I saw a teammate injured by a batted ball (took one off the face) and it was really scary to see his eye bleeding and swelling into something grotesque. I guess I should have tried a motorcycle helmet and kevlar body armor.

[Carter08]

With the Sad Lexicon coming out around 1910 I think I would have been seeking a trio of Tinker, Evers, and Chance. Maybe e93.

[frankbmd]

Can you imagine a kid in 1909 who didn't want to collect a future Hall of Famer with whom he shared a name? I smoked so many filthy Piedmont cigarettes trying to find a T206 Burkett. I actually created the first T206 checklist with over 500 cards from my efforts. The local general store where I got my Piedmonts did not sell T204s. Who knew Burkett had signed an exclusive contract with Ramly?

Years later I found my holy grail in a bakery in New York City before the first subway series.



Well, Jess finally made it to Cooperstown and I have collected several of those Hall of Fame plaque postcards, but regret not having a true period piece. I can only dream while looking at this faux rendition.

[npa589]

Absolutely - Cubs cards would have been hot. A lot of players who helped dominate for those WS teams (Overall, Reulbach, Steinfeldt, Schulte are some of the non-hofs) would have been sought after - especially in Midwest...

Originally Posted by Carter08

With the Sad Lexicon coming out around 1910 I think I would have been seeking a trio of Tinker, Evers, and Chance. Maybe e93.

[GeoPoto]

In 1915, Gallia was 23 and had his first full season with Washington -- he went 17-11 with a 2.29 ERA and an ERA+ of 130 in 259.2 innings pitched.

Meanwhile, also in 1915, Babe Ruth had his first full season with Boston -- he went 18-8 with a 2.44 ERA and an ERA+ of 114 in 217.2 innings pitched.

Unfortunately, I don't have a 1916 Gallia card (or a T/E-card), but, if I did, I could imagine somebody having traded it for a 1916 Ruth. Of course, by 1917, Ruth had been sensational in 1916 (his age-21 season) -- that year, he won 23 games, with a 1.75 ERA and an ERA+ of 158 on 323.2 innings pitched. The rest of his story is history.

Gallia went on to pitch 9 MLB seasons winning 66 games while losing 69. His career ERA+ is 94. His place in history is that he was the first American League pitcher to hit three batters in the same inning.

https://www.net54baseball.com/attach...1&d=1640260356

[oldeboo]

Bert Gallia, that's a good one. He had a couple of pretty good years. If nothing else, this shows us why ultra modern cards are risky and are comparable to picking lottery numbers.

[Vintagedeputy]

Originally Posted by Jason

Assuming I am still lucky enough to live in Richmond during that time, I am looking for all the local boys. Revelle, Lipe, Messitt etc. T206, T210, T209 and E222. Wait, that's not a change from 2021 at all lol.

I am in Richmond as well. Small world.

[Natswin2019]

Originally Posted by Vintagedeputy

I am in Richmond as well. Small world.

Hey me too. That's 3 of us on this board!