How to certify game used/game ready?

[Banjo]

I need some guidance... helping a friend sell some memorabilia. I think it might be worth the effort to attempt to get it certified game used/ game ready






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[Banjo]

This might be in the wrong forum


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[Musashi]

PSA will authenticate bats as game used, but... maybe it's the photo but I'm not seeing any signs of game prep on that bat. Clemente didn't use tape, but every gamer I've ever seen of his (admittedly not a lot) had a generously pine tarred handle.

[Banjo]

Originally Posted by Musashi

PSA will authenticate bats as game used, but... maybe it's the photo but I'm not seeing any signs of game prep on that bat. Clemente didn't use tape, but every gamer I've ever seen of his (admittedly not a lot) had a generously pine tarred handle.

Good input --- would PSA grade as a game ready? Any other places?


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[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Banjo

Good input --- would PSA grade as a game ready? Any other places?


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Probably start with if he even ordered a bat that model with those dimensions. What is the exact length and exact weight? Also post a better pic of the center brand. Then if you have a match send it in and hope for a game issued COA/LOA.

[Banjo]

The bat's dimensions are exact to the dimensions listed in Heritage auction. Being a U1, i believe it to be used in the late 1960s.

I know the source, and am confident it is an authentic bat... I'm more curious about this to assess if it's game used/game ready.


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[71buc]

OK I’m a little confused. The Heritage description is for the bat in question or is that description of a different Clemente U-1? Nonetheless, it’s hard to tell based on the photos. The centerbrand dates to 1964 at the latest. There is no trademark after the R in Slugger and the "REG. U.S. PAT. OFF." is located outside the oval. That style of branding lasted until 1964. It changed in 1965. So it definitely not a late 60s bat. Clemente used light tar much of his career and applied it more heavily in the last few years of his career. The game used Clemente bats I’ve handled vary in the degree to the amount of tar. However, most seem to have at least a light bit of staining/discoloration on the handle. There is often handwritten weights on the knob. Occasionally you will find a series of grooves (scoring)he drew into the barrel in an attempt to cause back spin. It’s not unusual to see Clemente game used bats will very light use. The amount of use and possible bat rack marks on this bats barrel are tough to distinguish based on the photos.

I recently upgraded my Clemente bat and specifically looked for a bat with the attributes I described above. Although I hate to do it I’m paying John Taube PSA about a $1000 to authenticate and grade it at the National. I’m doing so for my insurance. I’d spend the money on the bat in this discussion if it were mine. The difference between a PSA authentic ungraded bat and a PSA 9-10 Clemente is thousands of dollars and well worth the investment in my humble opinion. If it’s “Game Ready” it’s worth 5-7K if it’s deemed a PSA 9-10 it could be 25K. Good luck!

[ooo-ribay]

Disclaimer : I’m not a fan of third party grading of anything.

To me, this looks like a Clemente bat he never used. If that’s the case, is it worth $1000 to get it authenticated? If you had strong suspicion of game used, then maybe it would be in so far as increasing its selling price. Would “certified” game ready add $1000 to the selling price vs. “uncertified”? I don’t know.

Mike - is red sharpie for his number consistent? Certain guys seemed to favor certain colors.

[Banjo]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

Disclaimer : I’m not a fan of third party grading of anything.

To me, this looks like a Clemente bat he never used. If that’s the case, is it worth $1000 to get it authenticated? If you had strong suspicion of game used, then maybe it would be in so far as increasing its selling price. Would “certified” game ready add $1000 to the selling price vs. “uncertified”? I don’t know.

Mike - is red sharpie for his number consistent? Certain guys seemed to favor certain colors.

I guess that's is the question of the hour for me. I am a middle man, selling this for a friend, but promised I would explore all avenues. I've dealt mostly with cards (mostly collecting for 40 years)... and not much experience with memorabilia.

I'm trying to determine potential value and if it merits authentication. I know the source, how it was acquired, and am very confident that it is a true Clemente bat. I've seen auctions and associated prices for game used. I've seen fewer for for game ready, and don't recall seeing any for unused.


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[Banjo]

Originally Posted by 71buc

OK I’m a little confused. The Heritage description is for the bat in question or is that description of a different Clemente U-1? Nonetheless, it’s hard to tell based on the photos. The centerbrand dates to 1964 at the latest. There is no trademark after the R in Slugger and the "REG. U.S. PAT. OFF." is located outside the oval. That style of branding lasted until 1964. It changed in 1965. So it definitely not a late 60s bat. Clemente used light tar much of his career and applied it more heavily in the last few years of his career. The game used Clemente bats I’ve handled vary in the degree to the amount of tar. However, most seem to have at least a light bit of staining/discoloration on the handle. There is often handwritten weights on the knob. Occasionally you will find a series of grooves (scoring)he drew into the barrel in an attempt to cause back spin. It’s not unusual to see Clemente game used bats will very light use. The amount of use and possible bat rack marks on this bats barrel are tough to distinguish based on the photos.

I recently upgraded my Clemente bat and specifically looked for a bat with the attributes I described above. Although I hate to do it I’m paying John Taube PSA about a $1000 to authenticate and grade it at the National. I’m doing so for my insurance. I’d spend the money on the bat in this discussion if it were mine. The difference between a PSA authentic ungraded bat and a PSA 9-10 Clemente is thousands of dollars and well worth the investment in my humble opinion. If it’s “Game Ready” it’s worth 5-7K if it’s deemed a PSA 9-10 it could be 25K. Good luck!

Very good insight... I can't thank you enough. Sorry for the confusion... i just grabbed a paragraph off the internet to describe standard Clemente bats. This bat is NOT the Heritage auction bat, but its dimensions are identical.


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[71buc]

Rob, yes I have seen Red Sharpie on his bats. Light use is not unusual he went through a lot of bats. Based on the photos I can’t tell how light use there is on this one if any. Even a PSA 0 sellls for 5-7K if it’s authenticated.

[Mark17]

I'd call the folks at Hunt Auctions and ask them to put it in an upcoming live auction, where you get the full hammer price. They can describe it accurately and get a good price for you. Clemente GU sells extremely well.

[rand1com]

I would get it authenticated by PSA/DNA no matter how it is sold.

A major auction house can probably get it authenticated quicker and for much less money than the fee you will have to pay which they will deduct from the proceeds.

May be able to get a zero seller consignment with some of the major houses especially if they think it will get an actual game used grade by PSA/DNA.

I certainly think it is authentic but probably will get game issued designation.

But, as previously stated, probably still $5K or more.

If it gets even a GU7 grade, multiples of that and each number up increases it by much more.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Banjo

The bat's dimensions are exact to the dimensions listed in Heritage auction. Being a U1, i believe it to be used in the late 1960s.

I know the source, and am confident it is an authentic bat... I'm more curious about this to assess if it's game used/game ready.


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I believe(guess) it is from 1964 for a few reasons with those dimensions. If going the AH route I would suggest Al at Love of the Game.

[Mark17]

Lots of AH can sell this for you. The reason I suggest Hunt is that they've dealt with these. In fact, they have one in their current auction:

https://huntauctions.com/live/imagev...=271&lot_qual=

Not apples to apples because the one at auction is autographed, which is a huge thing on a Clemente item, but it's at $9,300 with 5 days left to go. With the price that high and so much time left, I expect it to go north of $20k and maybe much more. For fun, you might want to track it.

[Vintagedeputy]

Seems to be a lot of guessing in this thread about model numbers and length and weights. Why don’t you guys just look in the Malta book and it’ll tell you exactly what the bat records were for Clemente?

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Vintagedeputy

Seems to be a lot of guessing in this thread about model numbers and length and weights. Why don’t you guys just look in the Malta book and it’ll tell you exactly what the bat records were for Clemente?

I did but I sometimes still get it wrong so I added guess.

[Vintagedeputy]

Originally Posted by bnorth

I did but I sometimes still get it wrong so I added guess.

Fair enough.

[71buc]

Hunt does not say the bat in that listing is a game used bat. They describe it as “Uncracked with light evident use (in the outline of batting donut) and some general surface wear.” They do not say that this bat is game used. The listing even defers to PSA “NEED MORE INFO FROM TAUBE.” The value of this piece is that it’s a signed professional model Clemente bat. That’s apples to oranges. I assume that the reason Hunt did not use the words “game used” is that if the auction winner subsequently sends it to PSA and it is deemed authentic and not game used Hunt could be on the hook for a refund. I would think most auction houses would similarly exercise caution for the same reason.

If the owner of the bat that started this discussion were to submit this bat to an auction house without PSA he is running a large risk. If it sells for 5-7K as a professional model bat he could risk leaving a lot of money on the table. If the buyer sends it to PSA and Taube says it’s a PSA 7 it would be worth about 14K.

Let’s say he pays a grand for authentication and it returns as authentic with no game use. It then sells for 5K. Hunt charges 17.5% commission fees which is $875 leaving $4125 to the seller. Personally, I don’t like paying TPA fees. Unfortunately, it’s necessary to maximize the value when selling such a bat. I’d rather lose $875 than risk leaving up to 7K on the table. As for the authenticity of this bat based on the available information I have no opinion. The posted photos, lack of details and provenance make that impossible.

[Banjo]

Originally Posted by Vintagedeputy

Seems to be a lot of guessing in this thread about model numbers and length and weights. Why don’t you guys just look in the Malta book and it’ll tell you exactly what the bat records were for Clemente?

What is the Malta book?


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[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Banjo

What is the Malta book?


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A great book on LS bats. Here is a pic of mine.

[71buc]

Nice! Those books are a bit pricey if you can locate one.

[ooo-ribay]

Out of print.

[Vintagedeputy]

Originally Posted by Banjo

What is the Malta book?

Originally Posted by bnorth

A great book on LS bats. Here is a pic of mine.

Sorry...I sometimes forget that not everyone has one of these books in their references. Its a fantastic book for the GU bat collector. I'm fortunate to have two, one on my desk and one in my truck for bat finds on the road when I'm out memorabilia hunting.